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Five finger your groceries?
by stephen donahue Tuesday, Apr. 05, 2005 at 10:26 AM

It’s either that or pay 5 cents on each dollar of groceries you buy.

The Pennsylvania legislature is moving closer and closer toward a plan that would swap out school property taxes with a 5% tax on food, clothing and most all other items presently exempt from the state sales tax. Proponents say that this will give needed relief to property owners.

A sales tax on food is mean spirited and unconscionable. Rich people don’t get it because they got so much disposable income that they don’t even notice paying 5% on their groceries. Also the portion of their income that rich people spend on groceries is little compared to the portion of their income that a low wage earner spends on groceries. A low wage earner spends the bulk of their wage on food and other things needed for survival. The state wants to tax things essential for survival like food!

If I walk up to somebody who has $1000 in their pocket and demand a nickel, they ain’t going feel it. If I walk up to somebody with only a buck in their pocket and demand a nickel, they are certainly going to feel it. Get it? The ass hole politicians don’t. Or do they?

Who are they making this law for? For the fat cat who owns a mansion over in Shadyside; that’s who.

Give real property tax relief with a homestead exemption. The homestead exemption is a very progressive type of tax relief as it offers the greatest proportional relief to those with property of less market value. Make up for the lost income with a progressive state income tax that is graduated.

Getting rid of the property tax and replacing it with a sales tax on groceries and clothing takes from the poor to benefit the rich.

Should this bill get near to passing I will call for massive five fingering of food from grocery stores should it indeed pass. It will be the only way to avoid this unfair tax. Store owners will already be presented with the burden of collecting this tax for the state and we can present them with the additional burden of having to buy lots and lots of extra security. Maybe by doing this we can get grocery store owners and chains to lobby against this unjust legislation as well.

Don’t let them fuck over poor people by taxing the food on our tables!

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Pennsylvanias Constitution
by Libertarian Thursday, Apr. 07, 2005 at 7:46 AM

The reason Pennsylvania does not have a "progressive" income tax is because the state constitution requires that taxes be levied equally, so the idea of using that wouldn't fly without a constitutional amendment.
With that said we cannot claim to have private property when the state can take it away at any time. Property shouldn't be taxed, period. The state has the power to take both the rich man's and the poor man's house. Dont turn a legitimate complaint about the power of the state into a class war.

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i'm all for it
by stephen donahue Thursday, Apr. 07, 2005 at 11:49 AM

I love it when the liberals wine about a class war. "Oh my why can't we all just get along?" Why? Because of all the fucking inequities and injustice that's why.

Property can be taxed and is taxed all the time. Taxing "real" property has problems and is regressive minus something like a homestead exemption. (Homestead exemptions begin relief with the lowest income home owners first.)

A sales tax on groceries is far more regressive than the property tax is and swaping one for the other is an act of class war.

REGRESSIVE TAX: A tax that as a proportion of income takes more from low income earners than from high income earners.
(definition not opinion)

Taxing intangible property like stocks, dividends, capital gains and all other unearned income is a must. Oh yea!

You Libertarians will hate this but one purpose of fair taxation is to redistribute wealth. Let me repeat that just to get your blood boiling -- REDISTRIBUTE WEALTH.

Taxing things essential for living such as food is one example of the class war presently going on, that is a war on the poor. Why is it that when poor folks get mad, rich folks say, "don't start a class war." Sorry Mr. Libertarian the war is on already and as far as i am concerned you Libertarians are just as bad as any neo-con ass hole like Bush.

Offering tax credits: Fine, except say that you only got a buck to live on and i take from you 25 cents and then say to you, "don't worry if you fill out some papers and mail them in at the end of the year i will give you 15 cents back." How does that help you live now?

Graduated Income Tax: We must amend the PA Constitution. Amending the state constitution is hard but not impossible and in fact legislation to begin the process was filed in the last session. If PA got rid of the flat income tax and went to a graduated income tax we would go a long way in dealing with our deficit problems and redistribute some of that built up wealth off of Elsworth Avenue too.

ps: REDISTRIBUTE WEALTH! Oh yes and redistribute it the right way, that is from the rich to the poor not the way it is presently redistributed from the poor to the rich.

POOR: those whose yearly income is in the lowest quintile.

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go stephen
by peppy Thursday, Apr. 07, 2005 at 1:51 PM

nice! good job stephen.

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Taxes, property, food & renters
by Elise Sunday, Apr. 10, 2005 at 10:31 AM

Adding taxes to non-luxury food items is definitely regressive and will affect people with lower incomes disproportionately. Another attack on the poor! Food, books and bikes should be tax-free.

One wonders if, with the abolition of the school property tax, renters will get a mandatory reduction in their rents (given that landlords calculate property taxes into the rent)... If not, then it's definitely fair to say that this move is to benefit home-owners (typically not the poorest among us). I know that in Toronto (Canada), rental properties pay 4x as much tax as do owner-occupied properties -- the city can get away with it because renters don't actually receive the property tax bill (they just pay it through their rents).

The "homestead" idea is an interesting one -- thanks for sharing that.

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by i Tuesday, Apr. 19, 2005 at 11:47 AM

"If I walk up to somebody who has $1000 in their pocket and demand a nickel, they ain’t going feel it. If I walk up to somebody with only a buck in their pocket and demand a nickel, they are certainly going to feel it. Get it? The ass hole politicians don’t. Or do they?"

That's fucking brilliant. You walk up to me and demand a nickel and I'm gonna knock your teeth down the back of your throat and tell you to get a fuckin job.

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the real problem
by truth Tuesday, Apr. 19, 2005 at 2:10 PM

is that the socialist liberal freeloading call-them-what-you-want twits that think it is acceptable to commit a crime to avoid paying the same tax that everyone is going to have to pay, are also jealous little prigs. So now maybe they can understand that everyone feels the tax, and this is probably the first one they feel. They don't work, so they don't pay income tax. They don't drive cars, so they don't pay gas taxes. and what the hell is a "luxury" food. damn you ignorant wankers. it is all about class envy and jealousy, never about societal good. Always "let's take it from someone else so that we can claim it is for the good of everyone." I have enough of you losers dipping into my pocket. by the time I am done with combined income taxes of around 47%, and then a real property tax of another $10,000/year, and all the other nicely hidden taxes such as the gas tax, the sales tax, the airport tax, the RAD tax, and all the rest, I am bending over to keep the useless government in business. You want to see the economy rocket, you want to see real opportunity, you want a job, then support a rational and sane tax regime, and through out all of those taxes. For all the money I waste on taxes would be far better invested or spent by me. But you rotters don't understand economics, so you don't realize that if I buy $50,000 car to tow my $100,000 boat to my $500,000 house by the lake, that someone makes money off of that. Someone with a job making cars and boats, selling cars and boats, selling tires, making tires, or fabricating boats.

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by Phil, or Troy or Elinor? Wednesday, Apr. 20, 2005 at 1:20 PM

You're a dense hippie bastard, a useless sloganeer. All we ever hear from the lice herders is "it's the fault of the rich", but never in recorded history has a lice herder ever gave anyone a job. All they want is for the politburo to take from some and give to the fucking lazy.

Fuck you, commie slimebag. You negated your argument about sales taxes on food, which I don't approve of either. But you have made the tone of this thread about lazy hippie shitsacks bitching about the people who sweated to have something.

Don't like the rich politicos? Then stop wasting your life on your Playstation, A.N.S.W.E.R., womyn's isshews, Enabling the Degenerates, the farce of global warming or whatever pet trash you "Progressive" freaks focus on, and vote the fucking bums out!

Stop your whining, you jealous lazy sack of crap.

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It's graduated, but clearly you didn't
by dontunue Wednesday, Apr. 20, 2005 at 4:29 PM

The tax is graduated. Run the numbers.

Regardless, you make my point. ALL TAXES ARE A PENALTY. GET RID OF TAXES ON EVERYONE. Raise the limit on non-taxed income, and tax everyone less, including the rich. Taxes are bad for society and bad for hte economy. Taxes breed lazy ass politicians that are hell-bent on dipping into your pocket. Maybe it is about time that someone did pass a tax that bit you complaining whiner leftists in the ass so you can see what it is like to pay through the nose to fund the useless government. Keep in mind that it is that government that you all seem to want ot expend and get into the wealth redistribution business.


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by i Thursday, Apr. 21, 2005 at 7:48 AM

Actually Donahue I do make six figures although if I had stayed in the union I belonged to I would be making half that. Good thing I worked nights and went to school in the day to advance my career.

According to your figures (which could have been pulled out of a hat since there are no references) someone in the $300K bracket pays roughly $10.5K a year in state and local taxes while someone in the $45K bracket pays about $4K/yr. Looks to me that the person in the $300K bracket is contributing two and half times as much.

That being said, I disagree with this new tax. We can't trust the politicians to spend the EXISTING tax revenue on anything other than their favorite pork barrels.

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My last comment
by donahue Thursday, Apr. 21, 2005 at 8:04 AM

My last comment

I don’t do this Indy media thing that much. For me it is mostly just one tool that I use in local organizing. I am very sorry if I have irritated any of you nice right wing people like Phil, or Troy or Elinor. Oh fuck, no I ain’t I love it! Bye Bye

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by . Thursday, Apr. 21, 2005 at 8:08 AM

Exactley. The person making $300k pays only 2.5 times as much taxes as the person making $45k, while taking in over 6x the income!

Thats a regressive tax, asshole.

And no on cares how much you make... Or how many rooms your house has, or how big your penis is. You're still an asshole.

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by but Monday, Apr. 25, 2005 at 1:25 PM

I already steal, dumpster, or grow everything I eat!

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by ummm Tuesday, Apr. 26, 2005 at 11:23 AM

what Im trying to say is that we shouldn't be paying for the shit in the first place. Community garden? dumpsters in the strip district? Do it up pittsburgh!

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Shoplifters of the world...
by Sal Paradise Tuesday, Apr. 26, 2005 at 3:19 PM

unite and take over.

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by DD Tuesday, May. 24, 2005 at 5:05 AM

You are a dillusional moron - Instead of whining about how poor you are - get out there and do something about it - Those of us who catually WORK for a living happen to like the idea

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consider this...
by Angel Sunday, Sep. 18, 2005 at 10:06 AM

Aside from the fact that most states do tax food, you are not considering that the wealthier someone is the more they spend on food. I don't mean just luxury items. If you're on a bodget you'll look for the cheap cuts of meat, the store brand items. You'll skip a lot of the extras. A wealthy person's cart is much more likely to be loaded with T-Bones, brand names, and all sorts of extras. Also, they tend to be more frivolous about food consumption and a lot more gets thrown away. In that respect the food tax is fair because it does go up with one's income.

I spend about $75 a week on food. With a food tax I'd pay less than $4 on that making a grand total of $200 a year. My property taxes are quite a bit higher than that and instead of paying a little at a time, I get a big bill to pay.

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