community-based, non-corporate, participatory media
community-based, non-corporate, participatory media
Confront Admitted Sexual Assaulter Rich Mackin
by laura
Monday, Mar. 31, 2003 at 12:45 AM
laura@riseup.net (email address validated)
Admitted Sexual Assaulter Rich Mackin plans to perform spoken word at Pittsburgh center Project 1877 Weds 4/2 at 7pm. Project 1877 is being called to not allow Rich to perform in their space, and activists are being called to show solidarity with survivors.
Dear Project 1877,
Rich Mackin has sexually assaulted numerous people in Boston
and around the country. How many we do not know, because more survivors are coming forward every day. We are shocked
that you would host an event by a known perpetrator of sexual violence.
To support survivors, and to continue the fight against partiarchy and all forms of oppression, we must hold Rich
accountable. We cannot allow him to continue any activist work until he has met the demands of the survivors of his
assaults. To quote from the recently released \"Baby, I\'m a Manarchist\" zine , \"Until Rich is able to show the community that he can control his assaultive behaviors, he should certainly not be in radical space, and hopefully other spaces that respect the rights of womyn to be safe would set similar standards. This sort of action serves three
distinct purposes. It keeps space safe for womyn. It sends a message to Rich, that his behavior is unacceptable, and supports him by keeping him away from womyn. And it sends a message to everyone that survivors will be supported, and that assaulters will be challenged.\"
By allowing Rich Mackin and other assaulters in your space, even with the intention of confronting them, you continue the cycle of abuse and oppression. Rich has proven remarkably agile in distorting the facts and manipulating the situation
to portray himself as a victim, rather than as a dangerous assaulter. By providing him with a forum you allow him to continue this pattern of egregious behavior.
We must stop the cycle of sexual assault and oppression, and must therefore take a stand against sexual predators. Rich
Mackin is only one of many assaulters in our communities. As a first step we can create survivor positive spaces. The Lucy
Parsons Center (LPC) has set an example of how to deal with sexual predators - they recently refused to host an event at
which Rich Mackin was to appear and in its place hosted a discussion on sexual assault in activist communities. In announcing this decision, the collective wrote, \"The LPC
space is committed to girls, to women, to survivors. . . not those who oppress and violate them.\"
As survivors and supporters of survivors, we request that you join us in solidarity in creating a space where perpetrators of sexual assault do not feel welcome or
comfortable.
Due to the late nature of this letter, we realize it may be difficult to organize an alternative in the place of the previously scheduled event. Activists who participated in the LPC event would like to support you in creating a
survivor positive space, and are available to assist you in planning something similar in Pittsburgh. You can contact them at confrontingsexualassaultboston@hotmail.com
signed:
Krista Ciminera
Helen Matthews
Rosie streetpixie
Chandra Batra
Geoffrey McNamara
Jen Millis
Danielle Kilroy
Kasey Henneman
Chad Hapshe
Sarah Sky
Kelly McCoy
Justin Fossey
Justin \"Jed\" Dewyea
Heather Downing
Eowyn Rieke
timberly allen
Toby Briggs
Kathleen McDonough
Jessica Thrall
Sarah Millis
Abi Harper
Meredith Slopen
Tali Pocket
Laura Carrig
This is VERY concerning!
by Justin
Monday, Mar. 31, 2003 at 6:18 AM
I am not aware of the history behind this person, Rich Mackin, or the incidents you are referring to. I am sure that I am not the only one. I would defintaely call upon 1877 not to host events featuring sexual predators but I can not support your demand regarding this induvidual unless I have some proof that your very serious allegations are true? Where can I find more information regarding this subject?
hi
by etta
Monday, Mar. 31, 2003 at 6:55 AM
hey friend,
i would email the address they left in their
message for more information.
i think we should support the suvivors and
not allow him to perform.
if 1877 wants my help with this.
ill be in town until this wednesday.
love
etta
substantiate?
by andy
Monday, Mar. 31, 2003 at 7:38 AM
hey people
there was already talk about this at 1877, and while you're entitled to say what you will, it would be a lot more helpful if you would somehow substantiate these claims you're making about Rich instead of simply trying to force him off the touring circuit. no one here wants to be complicit in sexual assault, but if we don't know the facts how can we come to an educated decision?
please work with us, not at us
concerning this event
by q is hardtravelin
Monday, Mar. 31, 2003 at 7:52 AM
hardtravelin@yahoo.com
as the one who is the promoter of this event, when i was confronted with the information that rich was being accused of sexual improprieties (i use this vague word cuz it still really hasn't been made clear to me what he is being accused of: creepiness, sexual manipulation, assualt or rape). regardless, he was being accused of unacceptable behavior and i wasn't sure how to proceed. i contacted 1877 and asked what they wanted to do. the 1877 collective had a meeting to discuss the situation where they decided they wanted the event to continue. i know one of their main hopes was that this could create some dialogue, especially in a city where dealing wtih sexual assault within "the scene" has been repeatedly botched. i don't want to speak completely for them, so i suggest you contact them if you have any other questions. http://www.1877.org.
as for myself, i have worked with rich on a more "professional" level over the years, tho' i consider him a friend. it was very disheartening to hear these allegations. i've heard a variety of different things from rich, his accusors and those that support him and hope that rich is sincere in his admissions and his desire to get help.
difficult issue.
by --
Monday, Mar. 31, 2003 at 7:58 AM
I'd have to agree he shouldn't perform. It's very difficult to figure out in these situations what exactly is going on. Coming to a resolution is even more difficult because the alleged incidents occured so far from Boston. With the limited knowledge we have of what's going on we're faced with two conflicting sides neither of which has much proof.
Should he perform? I don't see how anyone who has read his response to the allegations would think it right for him to perform. He has admitted to behaving in a inappropriate manner towards numerous women. While some of the issues are in doubt he has admitted to enough that it seems inappropriate to give him space to perform. Very little time has passed since these incidents were brought to light and it's not apparent that he is taking steps to deal with his issues.
survivor support
by etta
Monday, Mar. 31, 2003 at 1:30 PM
a message signed with 24 names.
i know personally 2 of these people.
this is all i need to know in order to make a descion
about support.
one of the main problems with sexual assault is
the survivors not being believed and
being asked for more information.
24 people is a lot.
unconditional support.
etta
.
by .
Monday, Mar. 31, 2003 at 1:36 PM
24 people is a lot.
unconditional support.
How many of those 24 are only supporting this letter because they heard through the grapevine what happened? Did the 22nd and 23rd sign because they figured with 21 already signed they deserved unconditional report? All I know is they make it sound like he's left a trail of rape victims when I have yet to hear a single person say "He raped me" or "He assaulted me." You can't ask me to criticize someone because you say something is true about him...you have to give me more proof than "He did, just believe us. We have 24 people who believe us!"
Just to drive my point home, I believe that Etta hates Jews. 23 of my friends all confirmed she hates Jews and I think they deserve my unconditional support.
WHAT?!?
by khara kamikaze
Monday, Mar. 31, 2003 at 3:15 PM
rollerskate_jams@hotmail.com
i cannot believe that project 1877 or any individual would even CONSIDER supporting rich mackin. this is bullshit-- the man has admitted to sexual assault. WHAT WILL IT TAKE TO MAKE YOU ASSHOLES RESPECT WIMMIN?!?
regardless of what kind of sexual assault he*s admitted to, it*s more than enough to shut him out of 1877, hell, out of PITTSBURGH in my opinion.
xoxo khara
WHAT?!? (part II)
by khara kamikaze
Monday, Mar. 31, 2003 at 3:44 PM
rollerskate_jams@hotmail.com
QUOTE:
as for myself, i have worked with rich on a more "professional" level over the years, tho' i consider him a friend. it was very disheartening to hear these allegations. i've heard a variety of different things from rich, his accusors and those that support him and hope that rich is sincere in his admissions and his desire to get help.
THIS IS COMPLETE GARBAGE. you consider an addmitted sexual assaulter yr friend? you consider the *allegations* *disheartening*?
yr *friend* has admitted to sexual assault. that goes beyond being *unacceptable behavior* or *disheartening*. TREAT SEXUAL ASSAULT LIKE THE SERIOUS ISSUE THAT IT IS. DON*T PATRONIZE US BY TRIVIALIZING IT.
+ if you find sexual assault to be so *unacceptable* or *disheartening*, then do something about it. like what? oh, try NOT BEFRIENDING + HELPING TO FINANCIALLY SUPPORT FUCKED UP MEN WHO SEXUALLY HARASS WIMMIN!
i cannot believe that you*d continue to promote him after finding out that he*s an ADMITTED SEXUAL ASSAULTER.
who the fuck cares what he has to say about getting help? who the fuck cares what he has to say at all + why are you inviting him into pittsburgh to say it?
i, for one, will be outside protesting.
FUCK YOU.
khara
Project 1877's Response
by Branden
Monday, Mar. 31, 2003 at 5:53 PM
info@1877.org 412-363-1877 4805 Penn Ave
Last week Rich Mackin contacted the local organizers of this event and announced the current situation asking us if we still wanted him to perform. Project 1877 was contacted by the organizers and given the option to continue with the show or to cancel the show. With only days until the show we organized a meeting of all people interested and discussed the issue.
We consensed to host Rich Mackin based on several factors. The participants felt that, based on past experiences in Pittsburgh, shunning people rather than working with them does more harm than good. While no victim of sexual assualt needs to fully disclose their experiences, we felt there was a lack of information and democratic discussion involved with the allegations.
Project 1877 will host Rich Mackin at 7pm and the organizers are planning a discussion about sexual assault at 8:30pm. Rich has agreed to discuss the situation with the audience before the discussion/support forum.
We apologize if this performance offends anyone and encourage you not only to attend the after-performance discussion, but also to involve yourself with Project 1877 so that you may raise such concerns in the future. As a new space, we need community involvement and input so that we can better reflect our vision of programming.
Please contact us if you would like to discuss the issue or get involved.
Thank you,
Branden Dudek
Executive Director, CEASE
Rich Mackin and his supporters
by timberly
Monday, Mar. 31, 2003 at 6:04 PM
confrontingsexualassaultboston@hotmail.com
One thing I would like to say among many. The past week has been an incredibly hard and painful week. I have had to watch two friends of mine cry and be attacked day and night simply because they have tried to come forward with their stories of being assaulted. Often times by nameless people on the internet who challenge their veracity. As supporters have signed their names and in the letter being delivered to project 1877, their emails as well, we certainly are all willing to explain exactly why we have decided that Rich Mackin is a dangerous person and should not be in spaces which aim to build radical social change. I am glad to see the support that has been voiced, typically it has been by wymmin who know all to well what it means to be ignored, invalidated and accused of lying when confronting sexual assault. A question I wanna ask is why anyone feels it appropriate to post anonymously accusing people who are willing to be publicly accountable for their statements of lying? Why if you are gonna support someone without evidence, would it be Rich Mackin, not those people he has hurt? And what does this say about Patriarchy, and its overwhelming prescence in all communities including radical ones? Etta, thanks for the kind words of support, I would like to talk to you, please email the confrontingsexualassaultboston@hotmail.com address. I am continually saddened by the fucked up ways that men respond to this issue, and continually amazed and inspired by the wymmin who choose to fight instead of silently accept whatever fucked up actions men choose to take. I will be in Pittsburgh this week and I look forward to meeting all the amazing wymmin who will be there to support survivors of sexual violence. much anger at the pain inflicted by boys, and much love for the resistance and solidarity amongst all who wish to fight them. timberly Boston
.
by .
Monday, Mar. 31, 2003 at 6:59 PM
A question I wanna ask is why anyone feels it appropriate to post anonymously accusing people who are willing to be publicly accountable for their statements of lying?
Maybe because so far no one seems to have come forward? I dunno, all I've seen are vague "I'm friends iwth the people he raped" and "I know the people who signed the letter of support" but no specific accusations. You're all being so vague I can't even figure out what exactly you're claiming he did. I'm sorry, but if you want to be believed you need to offer a little more than "he attacked countless women. No really, he did. Dont' say he didn't, that makes you are a misogynist!"
Why if you are gonna support someone without evidence, would it be Rich Mackin, not those people he has hurt?
Maybe because we have that whole "innocent until proven guilty" thing? If none of these countless women you claim he's assaulted have come forward even now why should I believe any of them even exist?
I am continually saddened by the fucked up ways that men respond to this issue, and continually amazed and inspired by the wymmin who choose to fight instead of silently accept whatever fucked up actions men choose to take.
Uh, you're saddened because I'm not taking the word of several woman who's names I don't even know that this man I've never even heard of is a rapist? Hell, for all I know these "wymmin" don't even exist and you just have a vendetta against this guy because he dumped you. Wait, I just realized I'm having an argument with someone from Boston who spells women "wymmin." I doubt even my superhuman powers of logic and reason can penetrate this Shield of Pretentiousness.
.
by .
Monday, Mar. 31, 2003 at 7:01 PM
Oh yeah, could someone tell me where Rich admitted committing sexual assault?
let's stick together
by deadrockstar
Monday, Mar. 31, 2003 at 7:36 PM
Hey folks. I'm with everyone here in thinking of this as a serious issue. We have to make sure our communities are safe places for everyone, and we must prevent any one person from attacking or endangering the men and women we hold dear. And sometimes that means denying access to a community by those who would threaten it.
This is a complex issue. Q seems to care about Rich, and learning of the assaults he is accused of (and seems to admit to) must stand in stark contrast to the person Q thought he knew if he still supports Rich's performance in Pittsburgh. Our society is in some serious trouble indeed if even our progressive community believes the "criminal element" can never be rehabilitated! The question is: do we give Rich a chance?
To that question, the 1877 collective, for reasons of their own, has answered yes. As a community, let's respond not with accusations and anger, but with dialogue. Rich will be at 1877 on wednesday, when we'll have the opportunity to express our discomfort with him -- and, if necessary, to keep an eye on him. Let's come together over this, not apart. Let's watch out for ourselves and our people, and let's keep our community safe for women, men, and everybody else.
hmmm
by jwg
Monday, Mar. 31, 2003 at 8:42 PM
I have not as of yet, spoken about any of this. Ih ave heard a lot from both sides that is all rhetoric and flavoured to make their side come out clean.
Let me say that as I am unsure of the allegations, I cannot responsibly make a decision. I agree with the innocence until proven guilt, but you can't answer an allegation with that. If allegations are made, the truth needs to be researched, innocence or not.
If he is innocent, let him speak. If he is not, confront him with it. Do not answer allegations with "innocent until proven guilty' if you are not actively pursuing the truth in the matter. Not that I am assuming anyone is, but have not heard any presentation either way that this is happening.
Discuss this with Mr. Mackin, discuss it with the accusers. Findout and present as much evidence as you can either way before rushing to judgement on something like this. Sadly, it is an often occurance that women are ignored in their allegations by people assuming that they are just jealous, or bent on revenge. This must not and cannot continue.
Open a dialct with as many parties as possible before any decision is made.
Protests
by branden
Monday, Mar. 31, 2003 at 8:50 PM
info@1877.org 412-363-1877 4805 Penn Ave
I strongly applaud anyone who protests something that they believe is wrong.
I ask that anyone wishing to protest Project 1877 first make an attempt to discuss the issue with us. We are an open community that values dialogue and democracy. I realize that we are new and no one knew about us or the show until it was too late to become part of the decision to have him speak here, but we are rapidly expanding and the opportunity for such cooperation will be expanding too. Personally I'm just frustrated that most of the people opposed to him speaking here have never even called or emailed the space about it. There seems to be no dialogue between the space and people opposed to him speaking except in this public forum. By ignoring us and boycotting the space you simply leave it open to decisions like this one being made. One person could have blocked the consensus, just one person. A protest seems rather ineffective when one person can change it all.
Why not organize a protest at our space, a discussion group, a direct-action group, or anything else that would make a difference in uncovering the truth about sexual assault. We have restricted funds for this kind of program, please ask me about them and I can help you organize.
Information is power, let's share information so we can make a difference.
with love and respect,
branden
branden
by jwg
Monday, Mar. 31, 2003 at 9:03 PM
I agree, facts should be discussed. I'm bad with rods and rable a lot, but basically I was trying to say a very similar thing.
we'll have to meet next weekend, I believe I'm dj'ing the benefit on saturday
Emergency Meeting
by branden
Monday, Mar. 31, 2003 at 9:35 PM
info@1877.org 412-363-1877 4805 Penn Ave
The following email was sent to me by a friend urging an emergency meeting about the Rich Mackin show on Wednesday, April 2nd at 2pm. Because so many people are rising up to show support against this show we have decided to call a meeting to decide whether or not to continue with the show. We will also be planning alternative events for that evening if the consensus is to ban him from our space. Please come so that we can peacefully resolve this issue.
Thank you,
Branden Dudek
===========================
I feel that some things have changed drastically in the Rich Mackin situation over the weekend and I want to call another meeting to rediscuss our decision to let him speak.
At least five women have come out publicly to accuse Rich of sexual assault, including rape. More women are coming forward every day. Several of these women have created a 'zine about their experiences with Rich and have drafted a letter adressed to spaces hosting his tour asking communities to not allow him to speak as an act of solidarity with the survivors of his attacks. These women have confronted Rich and asked him to cancel his tour and to take immediate action to deal with his serious problem. Rich has not honored this.
It seems clear to me that Rich is a real threat to women. The women that he has abused have not only been strong enough to speak out about it, but are now planning to follow his tour and to block him from entering spaces where he is sceduled to speak. I am in full support of these survivors, and if our space does not officially cancel Rich's talk, I will support and help them in physically keeping him out of 1877. I hope that neither I nor they have to resort to this, and I hope that our community can join as a whole to support these women. I feel that this is no longer an issue of free speach and censorship, but an issue of safety for every community that Rich effects. As much as I don't want to shun him, I feel that supporting the survivors of his attacks is much more important.
-elina
Please Tel me what he Did
by Sondra Moon Shadow
Tuesday, Apr. 01, 2003 at 3:38 AM
soullite@aol.com
I just got on this message board adn have been reading about this guy. It sounds awful, but can someone point me to more information about what he did. I think that we should arm ourselves with all of the informaiton we can get from the media about his crimes and go to this show and confront him. Let him face the humiliation and degradation that he has put his victims through. And then I think we should protest every organization and venue that has given this guy any support. I don't care if he is Roman Polansky, predators like this must be stopped. The are worse than George Bush, who has victimized not only our country and our way of life, but takes his patriarchy around the World to victimize other cultures with his arrogance and hate. As too many of us know first hand the scares left by selfish sick sexual assaulters and Republicans, I think that we must take an activist role in shutting down any place that would welcome an oppressor of victims. Let me know and we will be there to give them some of my own shock and awe !!!
Punk means not screwing people over. . .
by John
Tuesday, Apr. 01, 2003 at 3:50 AM
johncihon@yahoo.com
I just wanted to chime in that if he is in fact an admitted rapist (and I really wish someone would provide a quote or link to what he exactly said) then it is probably right to ban him. But another consideration is that Mr. Mackin probably has expanded a certain amount of money to get to Pittsburgh with an understanding that he will make some of it back at the show, and if there is no show then he is out of luck. While some of you may think he deserves that, if there was an understanding between 1877 and Mr. Mackin, I feel that 1877 should try to keep any agreements they have made with Mr. Mackin. Perhaps if the show goes on, but no one comes, that sends a message just as powerful as banning him, without having 1877 break an agreement.
I guess I'm saying that I'm uncomfortable with supporting rapists, but I'm almost as uncomfortable with busting deals at the last minute.
Sincerely,
John
a dangerous man
by deadrockstar
Tuesday, Apr. 01, 2003 at 4:49 AM
From Branden's post: "At least five women have come out publicly to accuse Rich of sexual assault, including rape. More women are coming forward every day."
From Rich's livejournal: "I did some bad things. I have been accused of more bad things than I actually did."
http://www.livejournal.com/users/richmackin/
His accusers are becoming more explicit, while he remains terse and reserved. While there's a chance he's apologized to his victims in person, he doesn't do it in his statement -- despite that he admits his guilt. Instead of working with the community he has fractured by his actions, he is leaving town for the "start of a new life." Sorry, Rich. It's not that easy.
As etta said, " this is all i need to know in order to make a decision...." I'm not comfortable having him perform here, and I'm certainly not ok with giving him any $$ for the privilege.
I hope many of you will come to the 1877 meeting tomorrow to support sending Rich home to think about the women he has assaulted, and to support sending a message to unrepentant sexual predators that our communities will protect themselves.
Running away from Boston ain't going to save you from your sins, Rich; we already know who you are.
TODAY
by deadrockstar
Tuesday, Apr. 01, 2003 at 5:37 AM
Sorry for the misinformation. The meeting is TODAY at 2pm at 1877.
http://www.indypgh.org/news/2003/04/4393.php
Even More Dangerous
by Libertarian Avenger
Tuesday, Apr. 01, 2003 at 5:50 AM
Even more dangerous are your actions in accusing this guy without any evidence. THat's right, I said WITHOUT ANY EVIDENCE. If he is a rapist then he should be brought to trial for his actions. And he should not be allowed to flee the jurisdiction of his crimes. HOWEVER, as I read his LJ blog it seems that the only accusations that are made against him are that he "makes women feel uncomfortable". GET OVER IT GIRLIES !!! Hell having to watch tampon commercials in a crowded bar makes me uncomfortable, but do I get to sue the makers of Light Days. No. And you know why? Because making me uncomfortable is not a crime. You idiots make the mildest cases of bad manners into a federal crime and you end up emasculating the law and draw attention away from the real crimes. So maybe the guy wrote some off-color poetry, but hey Jesse Jackson once called New York CIty "Hymietown". Now that is racist, but where were you all? Are you boycotting Jesse's speeches? I woudl guess not. But you have someone saying that he told racist and transphobic (whatever the hell that is) joles or stories. Since when is that kind of speech a crime. Hell, since when is any speech short of yelling fire in a crowded theater when there ain't no fire a crime? I say let the guy come to Pittsburgh, let him say whatever he wants (since I want everyone to have that right), and if he raped anybody then let them file a complaint with the Beantown authorities and prosecute the guy. Until then, I think the guy might want to think about suing you and indymedia for distributing slanderous material about him. I have to beleive that if there really are 25 women (excuyse me, wimmin) with even more coming out of the shadows daily to accuse this guy of the despicable acts that you say he committed, then the Boston police shoudl have him in a cage pretty quickly.
Otherwise, I think you all should stop with these remarks unless you want him suing you. Until I see an indictment against this guy, or anyone else accused of a crime, then leave him alone. You haven't been able to produce anything that actually supports these allegations you are making. HELL< there was more credible evidence against Bill CLinton for being a sexual predator than you have offered against RIch Mackin. It is you people that offend me, conjuring up some sort of neo-modern post-feminist Salem witch hunt.
If 1877 breaches their contract with Rich then they better be prepared to pay him anyway, and they better be prepared to answer the question as to why they breached the agreement. And if it is because of the unsupported slanderous statements on this site, then indymedia better be prepared to answer for their participation in this violation of Mr. Mackin's rights.
.
by .
Tuesday, Apr. 01, 2003 at 6:16 AM
From Branden's post: "At least five women have come out publicly to accuse Rich of sexual assault, including rape. More women are coming forward every day."
Again, I'll ask who these women are, and where they've come out publicly.
From Rich's livejournal: "I did some bad things. I have been accused of more bad things than I actually did." http://www.livejournal.com/users/richmackin/
I really hope this isn't the "admission of guilt" everyone is screaming about. Especially when taken in the "sometimes women feel uncomfortable around me" context it was stated in. To me it sounded like he was saying "I've screwed up, but don't accuse me of rape."
His accusers are becoming more explicit, while he remains terse and reserved.
Maybe they could become explicit enough to actually state their names? Or perhaps why we should persecute a man for no reason other than the word of another?
despite that he admits his guilt.
He admitted he's made mistakes, but I have yet to see him say anything close to "I'm sorry I raped all those women" or "I'm sorry if I've sexually assaulted you."
As etta said, " this is all i need to know in order to make a decision...."
Then I truly feel sorry for you. All I can do is hope no rumors about me turn into an angry mob out to ruin any chance I have of performing my art. I hope many of you will come to the 1877 meeting tomorrow to support sending Rich home to think about the women he has assaulted
I'm thinking about going. But unless someone can say "here's all the women who claim to have been attacked by Rich" I'm going to continue to support him. This mob=justice thing just doesn't fly with me. At least most people get a trial before they're persecuted in society.
and to support sending a message to unrepentant sexual predators that our communities will protect themselves.
Yes! The monster is in the castle! BURN IT! We must protect our community! What's that? Oh, the monster wasn't there, we just burned down an innocent man's house. Sorry about that!
Running away from Boston ain't going to save you from your sins, Rich; we already know who you are.
See, comments like that have me really concerned about this. It sounds to me like there's a lot more going on behind the scenes than is coming out, almost like someone has a grudge against Rich...
more from
by etta
Tuesday, Apr. 01, 2003 at 6:51 AM
ok. some more things.
ive been thinking about sexual assault for years now.
the community i am a part of has tried to deal with
people getting called out on stuff the best way we could figure out. we had sooper long meetings.
i just want to say with all these years of thinking
about stuff it's easy for me to make descions. and i may have asked some of the questions people are asking on this list 4 years ago. (it's called working on
your shit...asking questions is ok, even if there fucked
up questions..cuz that's part of working on your shit.
but the anonymous thing is real annoying)
all you men out there that are not using your names,
i beg you to research the systemic assault on women
since before the beginning of recorded history.
women were murdered when they were raped.
they were stoned. they were cast outside there cities gates, or the worse, forced to marry their assaulters.
read Men Women and Rape. read Cunt.
when i see a posting with 24 names on it.
a carefully worded letter, and im familiar with these words...seriously..i can tell by the language that people
are trying to do what they think is best in a careful way.
i know that these people have been having sooper
long meetings about what to do about the situation.
i know they are trying to deal with it in a way that
doesnt involve the police. i know this because i
have had previous experiance.
i know there are women who have lied about stuff in the past. (AND GOD THAT IS ALWAYS EVERY ONES FIRST REACTION) but it is really a small small amount compared to the women who are sexually assaulted every day. it's just not that hard for me to believe.
i beg you. do not let rich mackin ruin our new community center, 1877. do not let him ruin everything pittsburgh has worked so hard in building. i love project 1877. khara! please call me i heard you were not going to be a radical cheerleader now cuz it's at the 1877. we can get through this y'all.
would you all call project 1877 and talk to them
personally. why dont all the supporters of mackin
who are so worried about his money set up a show for him that is not at project 1877 and see what happens.
again, please call project 1877 and talk to them
i love them unconditionally.
So this is why we fight
by S.Odamninsane
Tuesday, Apr. 01, 2003 at 7:05 AM
I have researched the systemic oppression of women ... it is alive and well in Hussein's Iraq. I am so glad that you hypocrits are so vigilant about the perceived oppression of a patriarchy boogieman that you will bannish this RIch guy for who knows what other than some unsubstantiated tales of bad behavior, but you are just hunky-dory with the blind support of the Palestinian and Iraqi way of life. You people really are a scream.
Womyn
by Jackel
Tuesday, Apr. 01, 2003 at 7:17 AM
I think they're great; everyone should own a few.
please
by jwg
Tuesday, Apr. 01, 2003 at 7:19 AM
keep posts relating to the subject.
Oppressed Women
by Jackel
Tuesday, Apr. 01, 2003 at 7:31 AM
I've oppressed a few women in my day and, I have to say, it can be quite enjoyable. I especially love oppressing those women who's only means of gaining self-esteem is by mispelling the word "women" or by calling every decent looking man a rapist. As a matter of fact, I don't believe that I've ever seen an attractive woman who spells it "womyn." Hmmm.
wow
by jwg
Tuesday, Apr. 01, 2003 at 7:35 AM
nonesense really. and judging people on their 'attractiveness,' that's a nice touch. I doubt you're all that good looking man.
the only thing you're statment proved it that you are immature, and most likely an idiot if you even thought that was funny. So keep it coming, we know where you're coming from and you're not ruffling any feathers here.
Rich Mackin Sexually Assaulted Me
by Rosie Streetpixie
Tuesday, Apr. 01, 2003 at 7:35 AM
rosiestreetpixie@hotmail.com
Fine. I've had enough. I promised myself that I wasn't going to do this, but I really feel at this point that it would be important, so we are not just some mystery people in the background.
My name is Rosie and Rich repeatedly sexually assaulted and raped me. I was his girlfriend for 9 months and his best friend as well. Upon many many occasions, if I was not in the mood for sex and told him so clearly, he would physically attempt to initiate it again and again. As in, while I was repeating my clear verbal non-consent, he was still touching me and physically attempting sex. Sometimes this ended in my rolling over and giving in, though he was highly capable of reading my signals since he knows me so well, and he chose to ignore them. This is a form of rape, and rape is not a word I use lightly. Other times I would have the guts to scream at him and he would get all apologetic, only to do the exact same thing a few nights later. This went on for MONTHS.
Rich coerced me, manipulated me, guilt tripped me, and degraded me. At one point I started crying in the middle of sex and he got mad at me for it, and degraded me for weeks afterwards about it. Other times he would get angry at me if I did not want to have sex- it got to the point towards the end of our relationship where I was avoiding him, because fending him off was far too exhausting.
I was silent about this for many many months, because Rich was my best friend and I knew I would lose him if I so much as broached the subject. I also felt that no one would believe me, and I did not want to deal with it myself.
I know Rich really, really, really well. Probably better than almost anyone who knows him. And I KNOW this is a pattern. He's made comments to me about a girl he was sleeping with such as, "Sometimes X says she isn't in the mood, and I'm always like, yes you are, you're humping my leg!", which makes it clear to me that he has no respect for a woman (or person's) right to say NO. He certainly ignored that right in my case and in others I know of. I know for a fact that Rich specifically targets women when he goes on tour, especially radical and punk women, engaging them with his act, star status, and supposed activisty good intentions. I know this because I have been on tour with him and seen it happen firsthand.
I am really fucking disgusted that I have to provide this level of "proof", and initially I swore to myself that I would not do it. But people aren't getting the message and this is too important to me. I'm not going to speak for my close friends who wrote the zine, and I know they're not likely to post on a forum like this. I respect that entirely and you should to. But I want to make it clear that I'm not some mystery woman out of nowhere. As much as I know I will suffer for this, it is worth it to me if it will help keep women safe.
Huge thanks to etta and khara, though I don't know either of you, and to other supporters. To the people who have made a joke out of this or are defending Rich with no basis on which to do so- if my heart can be broken any more, you are doing it.
If you want to talk to me about this, please feel free to email me.
BIte Me
by indy69
Tuesday, Apr. 01, 2003 at 7:39 AM
I said it before and I will say it agin...Jackel you are a Jackass. I am certain that you and Rich Mackin a good firends. The women, wymon, wimmin and wymin on this post a serious about their concern for their community. I suggest that you start respecting that before some Wymon begins oppressing you and your inflated self image. Your are what we wymon refer to as a doormat.
EVIDENCE
by Chuck
Tuesday, Apr. 01, 2003 at 7:47 AM
chuckxiii@hotmail.com
My girlfriend was raped by Rich. She is not lying about it and she is not making "scene drama". She is an individual that I love and respect. SHE WAS RAPED. .....is that enough evidence for you?
Wow
by Jackel
Tuesday, Apr. 01, 2003 at 7:59 AM
I don't judge people on their looks you idiot. I just know that women who resort to mispelling the word "women" to make a point are usually ugly women. That's all, just a fact. The rest was all jokes to lighten up the atmosphere created by overly sensitive liberals who think that an accidental brush on the shoulder is sexual assault.
As for Rich, you all better watch your butts because if any of that turns out to be not true, you're all going to be sued along with Indymedia. If it is true, I'll be the first to buy a lottery ticket to be on the shooting squad.
EVIDENCE
by Libertarian Avenger
Tuesday, Apr. 01, 2003 at 8:05 AM
Then Chuck, your girlfriend needs to go to the police and file a complaint. However, if your girlfriend's experience is like that of Ms. Streepixie you do not have a case. In fact, rape is "non-consensual and forcible" not merely regretable (otherwise I think there may be a lot more of us who would be claiming that someone had committed rape against us).
GIven that we still do not have any evidnce of anything that qualifies as "rape" I think that you shoudl be careful what you are saying about Mr. Mackin. And 1877 shoudl be prepared to pay up for any canceling of his contract.
grudge
by .
Tuesday, Apr. 01, 2003 at 8:13 AM
if people have a grudge against rich, it's probably because he did horrible things to them or someone they care about.
Emergency Meeting
by Branden
Tuesday, Apr. 01, 2003 at 8:15 AM
info@1877.org 412-363-1877 4805 Penn Ave
CLARIFICATION: The meeting is TODAY! at April 1st on tuesday. .. sorry about the short notice but I had been up working to get the space running 14 hours a day all week. The meeting is today at 2pm! If you cannot make it please come at 2pm tommorrow to discusss alternate events.
Branden Dudek
Discussing sexual assault
by eowyn
Tuesday, Apr. 01, 2003 at 8:16 AM
Dear friends,
I have been struggling with recent discussions of sexual
assault here in Boston, as well as other communities that
have been warned about Rich Mackin's assaults. Until two
weeks ago I did not feel prepared to address these issues
-- I was afraid I would hurt people by saying or doing the
wrong thing, I didn't feel like I had the words or
sensitivity to talk about this.
I wrestle with my own oppressive and patriarchal thoughts,
and how they might impact others when expressed or acted
on. I am slowly learning how to approach this issue with
compassion and sensitivity. It isn't easy. I have been
blessed and humbled by the courage and compassion of
friends here in Boston who have been teaching me how to
engage in these discussions so that we can learn and grow,
rather than continue the cycle of violence, oppression and
silence.
Through these discussions I have also begun to remember the details of several times when I was sexually assaulted, and this makes it all the more difficult and painful. But I am
committed to building activist communities that fight
oppression and patriarchy, and so I am willing to go
through this painful process.
One of the fundamental principles of dealing with sexual
assault is believing the survivors. Survivors have very
little to gain, and a lot to lose, by coming forward.
It is enormously painful to confront an assaulter --
because the assault then becomes public and we risk being disbelieved, because people start thinking of us in a
different sexualized way, because some people may respond with comments like "you really wanted it" or "you just regret that you gave it up" or something similar, because it provides the assaulter with a chance to manipulate the story so that WE become the aggressor/violater, because we have to relive the whole horrible experience, because people who genuinely want to support us may take actions that are actually more destructive, because once again we are vulnerable to assault and attack.
Many people have responded to the recent situation with "i
want to see the evidence". The evidence is that a person
has been accused of sexually assaulting many womyn, that a radical collective (Boston's Lucy Parsons Center) has
joined with survivors to confront the assaulter, and that
more than 20 people have signed on to a letter requesting
that other radical collectives/spaces support survivors by
not allowing the assaulter in their space.
I would hope that this would be evidence enough. I would
hope that we can trust other activists enough to know that
they have gone through the pain and difficulty of
discussing these issues and come up with the most
sensitive, compassionate, and just response.
Even without this information -- that many others support
the survivors -- I would hope that we would respond with
immediate compassion and support for the survivors, rather than probing questions and requests for proof.
I also hope that we can see this as an opportunity to
address this issue, and to further our commitment to
communities that fight against patriarchy, violence and
oppression in all their forms.
Many people respond to discussions of sexual assault
viscerally -- it is a dangerous, painful, scary thing to
think about. Just talking about it reminds me of the risks
I take every day, and the danger I am in as a woman, a
radical, an activist, someone who is not given much power
in this society. And it makes me think of how vulnerable we
all are to oppression and violence. Sometimes I want to
make it go away -- I don't want to think about it, I don't
want to hear about it, I don't want to have to deal with
it.
But it doesn't go away. If we don't deal with sexual
assault in our communities, womyn and others will continue to be assaulted, and their lives will be damaged beyond repair. If we don't talk about this, womyn and others who are assaulted will remove themselves from activist work because they do not feel safe. If we don't create spaces that are safe for womyn and others who are assaulted, those at risk of assault will not join in our struggle for a better world.
And assault never ever goes away for the survivor. If we
silence discussion, we injure survivors again by refusing
to support them in the enormously risky and painful process of healing.
As we continue this discussion, I encourage people to
consider how they would feel as a survivor of sexual
assault. This is a scary thing to do -- it may mean feeling
vulnerable; damaged; terribly frightened; ashamed of
something that was done TO you, but nonetheless carries a
huge social stigma; distrustful and disbelieving of all
that seems good, reliable and true; like you are alone in a
big black world with only your own shame and fear, and no
one to help you.
Then imagine trying to talk about your assault -- and the
big black world of pain actually becomes paradoxically
SAFER than what is outside. Outside there are people who
might not believe you, people who might say or do things
that would hurt you more (if that's possible) or at least
perpetuate your pain and aloneness, people who might
silence you again, people who might make an already
unbelievably painful situation worse.
Just writing this makes me want to crawl into a corner and
cry. It hurts, but we've got to face it.
As I write this, I re-read my words and try to imagine how
they might hurt someone. I want to be true to my own
feelings and thoughts, and I also want to help survivors
(myself included) feel safe and supported. When these two
priorities conflict I have tried to emphasize survivor
support, rather than my own perspective on this issue.
I desperately hope that what I have written has not
retraumatized or otherwise hurt any survivors. If I have, I
hope you can tell me what I can do differently so I can
continue to learn about addressing sexual assault in our
communities. I am slowly learning how to do this better.
I would love to be in an activist community where we all
work together to learn about how to confront sexual assault
and how to support survivors. This may seem like an
enormous challenge, and it is. But it is nothing compared
to what survivors of sexual assault must face every day.
in love and struggle,
eowyn
cops/pigs/armies of the rich (no pun intended)
by matt
Tuesday, Apr. 01, 2003 at 8:31 AM
people aren't going to the cops because going to the cops is often a terrible experience for the victims.
also, rape is defined as nonconsensual sex. if it's not violent, but coercive instead, it's still rape.
also, for those of us who don't believe in the legitimacy of the state, going to the police isn't an option we're going to take. they're the enemy.
.
by .
Tuesday, Apr. 01, 2003 at 8:31 AM
My girlfriend was raped by Rich. She is not lying about it and she is not making "scene drama". She is an individual that I love and respect. SHE WAS RAPED. .....is that enough evidence for you?
That's not evidence. What is your girlfriend's name? I'm sorry if I insist on having a little more accountability than a first name and a Hotmail address.
.
by .
Tuesday, Apr. 01, 2003 at 8:31 AM
I am really fucking disgusted that I have to provide this level of "proof", and initially I swore to myself that I would not do it. But people aren't getting the message and this is too important to me.
It's all about accountability. I find it disgusting you think you can offer no proof and expect everyone to roll over and take your word for it.
THAT'S IT ?!
by indy69
Tuesday, Apr. 01, 2003 at 8:56 AM
That's It ??? That is what we have all been beating this guy up aout? Just because he was persistent with you ROsie DOES NOT mean he raped you. You see you need to say "No" and not "rolling over and giving in". I don't want to sound insensitive but you were with this guy for 9 moths and not once did you leave and you still call him your friend. I feel for you Rosie, but not because you were raped by RIch Mackin, but because you need to get some counciling for your early stage battered wife syndrome.
"Other times I would have the guts to scream at him and he would get all apologetic, only to do the exact same thing a few nights later. This went on for MONTHS." So all you are telling me is that we are getting worked up here becasue the guy actually DID listen to you when you said "no" but that he asked again a few nites later. THis went on for Months? Did he have you chained to the wall in the basement? If it was so terrible you needed to kick him in the balls and leave.
MY GOD, we are trampling all over this guy because, bassically, you felt that you couldnt leave your good fiend. COnsent means saying NO and meaning it, not saying "not tonight" or "I am not in the mood". If the guy is persistnet then make it clear, don't just say "okay but I am not going to enjoy it." So he is persistent and "has no respect for a woman (or person's) right to say NO", that doesn't mean that you have to say "YES". Get a grip, the telemarketers that call me everynite have no respect for anyone's right to say NO but I sure as hell don't say YES and then think they are the ones at fault for sending me shit I don't want or need.
"Sometimes X says she isn't in the mood, and I'm always like, yes you are, you're humping my leg!". Actually, sounds like a logical progressiion to me. How else is anyone supposed to "read the signals" of that.
THis is crap. You can't call the guy a rapist for stuff like this. You don't believe me, go talk to the police and try to swear out a complaint. Rape is a serious crime but that is not what you have here. Get a grip sister.
wow
by jwg
Tuesday, Apr. 01, 2003 at 9:16 AM
I bet you belive all that "she asked for it, look at how she's dressed" bullshit.
it is a very serious issue because so many people believe that emotional pressure and abuse has no effect on sexual assault.
In a bit more extreme of an example, if someone says, if you don't have sex with me, I will beat the living crap out of you, and you say yes, does that make it not rape.
I'm not saying that Mr. Mackin is guilty, I am saying that emotional duress is just as important as physical duress in these situations. And to say that it isn't is ignoring a huge problem.
Someone just seems pissed ar RIch and wants to make him pay
by Justin Facks
Tuesday, Apr. 01, 2003 at 9:35 AM
THE FOLLOWING IS THE POST MADE BY STREETPIXIE AT RICH"S SITE JUST A FEW DAYS AGO. NO MENTION OF RAPE, BUT ALOT OF CRAP ABOUT WANTING TO GET EVEN WITH HIM. CONSIDER THIS IN THE PROCESS OF HANGING RICH.
_________________________
First of all, I completely agree with everything Martha said. I think this is what I was trying to explain when I was too livid to do anything but scream at you- the real problem is that you always seem to think everything is all about you, all the time. If you have hurt people, your instant reaction is to 1. Act incredibly defensive, 2. Make a lot of public relations statements insisting that people come and talk to you, so that everyone knows how "reasonable" you are, and you have something to cover your ass with later. Before this I have never seen you express real remorse over any harm you may have caused. I don't think that you've ever behaved this way out of intent, but that just kind of gives tribute to the fact that you're fucked up. And it doesn't really matter anyway. Like we're saying, this is not at all about you.
Furthermore, since I know you don't believe anything that comes out of Ciara, it's completely true that she had nothing to do with this stuff, this time around. The LPC called me last night, told me about their decision, I talked to them for a long time, they talked amongst themselves, they called me back, they stuck to their decision. The collective member I talked to on the phone was crying and so was I- it was really obvious that they had a lot of respect for my position and while I don't think it entirely neccesary to cancel the show, I DO support their decision, and I am grateful to them for allowing the workshops to go on....
So this leads me to my original point in that last paragraph- it really bothered me that as soon as I called you up with this you started to talk about Ciara. I think you know this by now, but I'm saying it anyway- THIS IS NOT ABOUT CIARA. I think the fact that the COMMUNITY has basically ousted you from the organizing process of this zine fair, that you've essentially been banned from half of the ongoing events, speaks to how many people feel that you are not safe.
I just hope you appreciate how much you have fucked me over. I am the only person in this community right now who is stuck on both sides of the "rich mackin" debate. On one hand, I have put up with some incredibly fucked up behaviour from you, I have my own emotions to deal with on that subject, and I would like to be a part of any group involved with calling you out, confronting you, discussing your behavior, etc etc. On the other hand I am this years main BTZT organizer and I've put an incredible amount of work into this zinefair only to see it completely fucked over because of you. Obviously I want the zinefair to go on in full force and I'm disappointed that these issues are blowing up right now- not because I don't want them to blow up, but because you are ruining my hard work.
____________________
wow - jwg
by indy69
Tuesday, Apr. 01, 2003 at 9:46 AM
indy69
No jwg, if Rosie had said that Rich threatened to beat the crap out of her unless she put out, then that woudl be a different story. SHe didn't. She just said that Rich succeeded at getting her juices flowing enough to get her to roll over and give in. That isn't rape. And I never said that anyone has it coming, I just said that you have to be responsible in what you do. You don't get to say okay, but I am objecting tonite adn then say it was rape the next day. If Rich beat her to have sex then Rich shoudl be prosecuted. I think this is just someone trying to F-up Rich's life right now. Go to his website adn read some of the stuff there. THis is nonsense adn I am really upset the indymedia and Project 1877 are jumping on someone's personal wqitchhunt. This guy has been victimized by the simpleminds here in Pittsburgh.
attn: jackal
by jwg
Tuesday, Apr. 01, 2003 at 9:48 AM
"I don't judge people on their looks you idiot. I just know that women who resort to mispelling the word "women" to make a point are usually ugly women. That's all, just a fact."
That is not a fact, I'd actually be surprised if you knew what one was.
and you're basically saying that you don't listen to people who misspell the word "woman" in other words, you don't listen to "ugly women"
that is passing judgement based on appearance
.
by .
Tuesday, Apr. 01, 2003 at 10:03 AM
I don't listen to anyone who spells women "wymmin" because it makes them sound whiney and stupid. In other words, I don't listen to feminazis.
about Rich Makin
by 2balls
Tuesday, Apr. 01, 2003 at 10:03 AM
FREE RICH MAKIN !!
.
by .
Tuesday, Apr. 01, 2003 at 10:03 AM
I don't listen to anyone who spells women "wymmin" because it makes them sound whiney and stupid. In other words, I don't listen to feminazis.
but....
by jwg
Tuesday, Apr. 01, 2003 at 10:12 AM
I wasn't addressing you, I was addressing jackyl.
but anyways, you should listen to people points and then make a decision, not ignore people who sound 'whiney' they could have a very good point to make
bullshit
by matt
Tuesday, Apr. 01, 2003 at 10:20 AM
compare
"No jwg, if Rosie had said that Rich threatened to beat the crap out of her unless she put out, then that woudl be a different story. SHe didn't. She just said that Rich succeeded at getting her juices flowing enough to get her to roll over and give in. That isn't rape."
with
"Upon many many occasions, if I was not in the mood for sex and told him so clearly, he would physically attempt to initiate it again and again. As in, while I was repeating my clear verbal non-consent, he was still touching me and physically attempting sex. Sometimes this ended in my rolling over and giving in, though he was highly capable of reading my signals since he knows me so well, and he chose to ignore them. This is a form of rape, and rape is not a word I use lightly. Other times I would have the guts to scream at him and he would get all apologetic, only to do the exact same thing a few nights later. This went on for MONTHS"
she's not saying a word about wanting or desiring sex, she's talking about being worn down.
if anything, it feels like the witch hunt is against his accusers and victims. i spoke extensively with two of the people involved in this for months before they went public, and one of their main concerns was dealing with assholes like you. i think calling this a "witch hunt" is completely besides the point. how are any of these people gaining from attacking rich? rosie not only had to put up with her own personal issues with him, she had to put up with all of this greatly interfering with an event she put her fucking heart and soul into. have you ever tried organizing something on the scale of beantown zinetown?
different story my ass
by jwg
Tuesday, Apr. 01, 2003 at 10:27 AM
"No jwg, if Rosie had said that Rich threatened to beat the crap out of her unless she put out, then that woudl be a different story"
that is 100% not true, just because someone is in no immediate physical danger, doesn't mean that they cannot be in a duress situation. emotional battery is still a major problem in situations like this.
this is too often ignored men can injure women emotionally because of the nature of our paternalistic society. It can happen the other way too, but our society teaches us men are worth more. And answering a rape allegation with "she's out to get something" or "it wasn't rape" enforces that.
Again I want to say i am not assumng any guilt on the part or Mr. Mackin, we need to know more. But to continue to belittle allegations made by abused women is exactly why a lot of women never come forward with such allegations.
Weak Wymmin
by Jackel
Tuesday, Apr. 01, 2003 at 10:31 AM
Hey Matt, I am sorry that Ms. Streetpixie is so weak and feeble that she got worn down, but it still sounds like she had a lot fo time to kick him in the balls or push him out of bed. Calling that rape really cheapens those cases of actual rape.
signed names.
by marianne
Tuesday, Apr. 01, 2003 at 10:45 AM
the names were signed by men & women who dont need any more proof than a surviors word to believe they were sexually assaulted, its appalling to see that people who are members of a radical community get so bent out of shape about this, saying that these people "dont know the facts" the fact is, these women so courageously came forward in a word & community they knew would doubt them...that takes alot more guts than to post on an internet message board...
fathers, brothers, boyfriends, girlfriends, mothers, sisters, uncles, priests, judges, cops, anyone & everyone could be a sexual assaulter.... maybe some of you should think before you speak & stop hurting surviors and supporting them.
Cake and eat it too
by Dr.Love.
Tuesday, Apr. 01, 2003 at 10:47 AM
Look, you feminazis out there want to be treated "just like men" and want to be respected as an equal (which is entirely fair) but then you don't expect women to be strong enough to kick a guy in the balls or, at a minimum, not to give in to a guy's demands because of psychological pressure. Which way do you want it? Look, we all get fooled once in a while but if I tell a woman that I love her just so she has sex with me and then never call her again, is that rape? It's rude, immoral and a lot of other things but it sure as hell isn't rape. I think you all need to cool down a little bit and get the facts before you continue blabbering on about what some guy did or didn't do.
i also signed.
by marianne chimi
Tuesday, Apr. 01, 2003 at 10:48 AM
just so its noted, i also signed, marianne chimi.. not so sure why its not up there
rich is not banished..
by marianne
Tuesday, Apr. 01, 2003 at 10:54 AM
rich is not banished he has been asked to complete a list of demands..and has declined.
rich is not banished..
by marianne
Tuesday, Apr. 01, 2003 at 10:54 AM
rich is not banished he has been asked to complete a list of demands..and has declined.
bullshit
by matt
Tuesday, Apr. 01, 2003 at 11:01 AM
so ... calling unwanted sexual interaction unwanted sexual interaction cheapens cases of unwanted sexual interaction/
rosie isn't talking about one incident, she's talking about a pattern of events.
attn: Dr. Love
by jwg
Tuesday, Apr. 01, 2003 at 11:03 AM
"Look, you feminazis out there want to be treated "just like men" and want to be respected as an equal"
So do that and treat them equally and fairly. this means it's wrong to tell someone you love them just to sleep with them. It's interpersonal courtesy.
No one should ever put anyone in a situations where the only way out is to "kick them in the balls"
and to anyone who doubts the impact of psychologial abuse, I feel sorry for you. It is a lot less noticable than physical abuse, and therefor much more dangerous. Koresh did it with his 'wives' he never threatened them physcically. It is an important issue that shuld not be ignored or trivialised
bullshit
by matt
Tuesday, Apr. 01, 2003 at 11:04 AM
rape also isn't something only done by men to women.
A list of demands?
by Dr. Love
Tuesday, Apr. 01, 2003 at 11:07 AM
Why don't all of you just go the DA's office and file a complaint? If it doesn't rise to the level of a crime, then what gives you the right to make a list of demands? This is really stupid. Either jail the guy or leave him alone. If you all are just giving a list of demands, then I'm inclined to believe that noone was actually raped, at least in the criminal context. This is really absurd.
May I also ad
by Dr. Love
Tuesday, Apr. 01, 2003 at 11:08 AM
That if you start making demands in return for not filing a criminal complaint, then you are walking a fine line against extortion. Be careful my friends.
.
by .
Tuesday, Apr. 01, 2003 at 11:13 AM
No one should ever put anyone in a situations where the only way out is to "kick them in the balls"
Yeah, if only she could have left. Oh, but that would have destroyed her beautiful friendship with a guy she claims was raping her! I'm sorry but if she had gotten to charge him and go to trial the jury would have aquitted him in a heartbeat. Not because he's a man or because we like to disbelieve rape victims but because we value a man's (or woman's!) innocence above nearly anything else. If we just start skipping the trials and going straight to public harrassment how exactly are we not just forming a new McCarthyism?
Koresh did it with his 'wives' he never threatened them physcically.
I was under the impression that all that multiple wives stuff about Koresh was BS spread by Reno's DoJ to draw attention away from all the dead children. I know the stories that he was molesting kids was BS as the DoJ got a sound handslapping for faslifying search warrants. Go Clinton Administration!!
This is futile
by Dr. Love
Tuesday, Apr. 01, 2003 at 11:20 AM
Just because a woman shouldn't be put in that position (which I agree with) doesn't mean that the guy "raped" her or is worthy of public slander. If I knew that my girlfriend was raped, I wouldn't be spending my time spewing about it on a website; I would do everything possible to get her to go to the cops and, if she didn't, I'd shoot the son of a bitch. The panzy-assed liberals need to grow some gonads and do something about it if they want things to change and not just vent here. Maybe they'll have a rally or a march? That might help.
the legal system
by matt
Tuesday, Apr. 01, 2003 at 11:20 AM
are you getting kickbacks from a lawyer or something? there are many, many good reasons to not handle this through the legal system.
.
by .
Tuesday, Apr. 01, 2003 at 11:25 AM
Are you getting kickbacks from a lawyer or something? there are many, many good reasons to not handle this through the legal system.
What are some good reasons for not handling this through the legal system? Being accountable? Leaving a trail of documentation showing what he's done (so if he does it again the DA will have more evidence)? Being able to say "I tried to get him put away. I did my best"?
But you're right...I suppose it is better to just vocally try to ruin someone's life with no proof or anything. I just hope you remember that when a rumor about you gets out of control...
Legal System
by Dr. Love
Tuesday, Apr. 01, 2003 at 11:28 AM
That comment was just downright stupid. When someone shoots your brother, don't go to the cops, just talk about him on the internet. What outstanding logic.
rich will not perform
by deadrockstar
Tuesday, Apr. 01, 2003 at 11:46 AM
Rich has already made clear that he is OK with cancelling tomorrow's performance if it makes people uncomfortable. This isn't a censorship thing. The man does not want to perform if he's not going to have a positive impact. Today, members of the community met at 1877 and discussed whether or not it made sense to have here. We decided against it, unanimously. Not one person in attendance supported having him perform. There will be an official statement issued from 1877 shortly, but it makes sense now to lay accusations of censorship and character assassination to rest. This is a legitimate concern, and it has been dealt with democratically and appropriately.
deadrockstar
by jwg
Tuesday, Apr. 01, 2003 at 11:48 AM
thank you. simple, accurate explanations are the best
Oh Happy Day
by Jackel
Tuesday, Apr. 01, 2003 at 11:52 AM
I am happy that you think it appropriate to deal with blatant character assasination and potential criminal matters "democratically." So when I have ameeting and determine, democratically of course, that you are a closet transgenderphobe and racist you will be entirely fine wiht the web posting that I and others make about your low character. Thanks for taking modern jurisprudence back to an easier time ... like that of Nathaniel Hawthorne.
ya know what
by jwg
Tuesday, Apr. 01, 2003 at 11:59 AM
If i was booked to play at your space, and you presented me with those accusations, and all I said "well I have done bad things, if you don't want me to perform, I'll back out"
then by all means it's your right to decide wether I'll perform or not
JWG FOr President
by Jackel
Tuesday, Apr. 01, 2003 at 12:08 PM
You sound like Bill CLinton ("I know I have caused pain to those I love") when confornted with allegations of rape adn sexual indiscretions. THe guy probably didnt mean it was okay, but rather you and the rest of this lynch mob created a hostile evironmetn into which he certainly woudl be right in fearing to perform. You "wore him down" at the expense of making a rational decision about his character. I doubt the guy even wanted to dignify the bogus claims of rape with anything more than his description of what occured ...apparently a lovers argument. Shit, even the Streetpixie chick is posting stuff at his website that just seems like she is pissed off at him for behaving badly at a party, and certainly is not acting like she is scared, oppressed, disempowered, or any other victim characterization. Damn it, she is entirely empowered becasue it looks like she was the one in a positino of causing harm to his career by denying him participation inthe organizatinos which she was a leader in. You poeople are an ignorant mob of diletants.
Oh did I mention that this guy Mackin ought to sue you guys and indy media. And he shoudl sue the Streetpixie chick too.
Search for RIch Mackin
by Jackel
Tuesday, Apr. 01, 2003 at 12:38 PM
Go do a web search for Rich Mackin, and there it is, your unfounded slanderous statements, front and center for everyone to see. Man this guy is going to sue your butts. And even if he had a law student for a lawyer He would probably win. LOSERS !!!
slander
by matt
Tuesday, Apr. 01, 2003 at 1:01 PM
truth is a legal defense against slander, and if he pushed for slander, it would lead to charges against him pretty quickly.
But there is no truth
by Free Rich Mackin
Tuesday, Apr. 01, 2003 at 1:12 PM
Hey, it hasn't led to charges against him yet, adn no one is willing to bring charges (especially with those bullshit facts alleged). So you still need to establish the truth. I guess you can do that? Just because the mob says it is so does not make it so.
jackyl
by jwg
Tuesday, Apr. 01, 2003 at 1:12 PM
thank you for speaking on behalf of Mr. Mackin with your last post. I'm sure he wants you on his side
leadership
by matt
Tuesday, Apr. 01, 2003 at 1:12 PM
when did rosie ever say she was a leader of anything?
Really?
by Jackel
Tuesday, Apr. 01, 2003 at 1:13 PM
Are you saying that if he sued you for slander you would file criminal charges? Don't you realize that is extortion? Look, I hate lawyers as much as most people but if I were you (collectively) I would seek one out soon. You speak as if you have first-hand knowledge that he committed rape or another crime. If you do, then why don't you go to the police? The only answer is that you do not have such evidence. And, the fact that you have destroyed someone's life without any real evidence is just disgusting. Hey, you've already dug yourself a huge hole here so you may as well tell everyone what your evidence is. (Or are you going to play this little "hide the ball" game so you can pretend that you're connected to the whole ordeal and feel important).
Actually, that's why most of you people march and rally. Not for some political injustice but to feel "needed" and "part" of a group. Thank God noone takes you seriously.
Indy Media Tramples the Constitution
by ,
Tuesday, Apr. 01, 2003 at 1:15 PM
Miss Ogyny, We love Yunz
by Prodigal Yunzer • Tuesday April 01, 2003 at 05:51 PM
Being a testosterone governed atrocity waiting to happen, it is difficult to clear my mind enough to operate on the elevated level of our dear sister, try as I might. Despite my urges to browse the dark sites of the internet, I will bear down in an attempt to clarify my thoughts.
The lack of male genitalia does not confer an accuser with automatic credibility. One's race also does not confer any credentials over and above those of another's race to credibly accuse someone of a crime, thought variety or other.
Imagine if the judges held every protester in jail without bond who had been previously ARRESTED? Would you stand for that? Hey, at least three different police accused this person of a crime, so this person must be somehow offensive. That would be untenable to you, of course. You would insist that a mere arrest would never rise to the level of a CONVICTION, right?
Well, same thing goes for this sort of thing. Our community, warts and all, is not run by a secret invisible covey of anti-power brokers, who can ruin a person's reputation with innuendo. Not yet anyway. I know this sort of thing is done all the time in more progressive burgs. Gaia help us if we follow suit.
add your comments
slander
by matt
Tuesday, Apr. 01, 2003 at 1:29 PM
i'm not taking any direct action, because i am not directly involved. so my saying "if he presssed slander issues, the question of rape and sexual assault would most likely come up and he'd potentially wind up going to court" isn't a threat but an observation.
i'm also doing what i can to verbally defend and support the women who have called rich out, without neccesarily speaking for them or representing them.
at least five women have come out publically stating that rich either sexually assaulted or raped them.
in rich's defense
by deadrockstar
Tuesday, Apr. 01, 2003 at 1:47 PM
Many posts on this page have given Rich amateur legal advice, or have created hypothetical situations in which he is the victim. I suggest that any of you, before posting similar comments again, please contact Rich and determine whether or not he deserves/desires your support. I would suggest also that a single constructive comment is worth an avalanche of screeds. This forum will be more effective if everyone considers the contribution his or her comment will make to the discussion before posting a statement. Thanks, everyone.
just a thought.
by Cutter Kay Oss
Tuesday, Apr. 01, 2003 at 2:21 PM
apunkalypse@hotmail.com
did everyone here forget that we are activists? anarchists, conspiracy theorists, poetic terrorists, what have you. in any instance, we (speaking collectively, i apologize) do not trust the goverment. in many cases, more than mistrust, we abhor the aforementioned political institution. so why then would it make sense to seek out the authorities in this matter? cops, lawyers, judges... they all support what we despise. bringing this to the legal system only makes a worse mess, and also proves that an activist community cannot work within itself to problem solve. i thought autonomy was a key factor of anarchy and revolution.
the goal shouldn't be for rosie and the others to put rich in jail. what would jail ever solve? jail isn't some big blinking neon light that says "your sins will be acquitted here". he's not going to walk out of prison in a few months with a diploma that says he'll never be a sexual assaulter again. i think the victims chose the right tactic, allowing for a forum of progresive-minded people, rather than request legal involvement. trivializing the claims of the accusors and confrontors simply because they do not wish legal recourse is extremely immature and short-sighted of a higher goal.
if this is the way you respond when something like this happens NOW, who are you going to seek out for help later on when revolution is actually acheived?
Revolutionary Justice
by Prodigal Yunzer
Wednesday, Apr. 02, 2003 at 4:31 AM
Well of course eventually we will have tribunals where we can prosecute the running dog cultural hegemonists and testosterone addled sex criminals right next to the People's Gallows, where we will administer swift punishment to the war criminals and their lickspittle collaborators.
I have my gavel and powdered wig right next to my computer, send me an email when we take over.
You Have NINE MONTHS Pal
by Prodigal Yunzer
Wednesday, Apr. 02, 2003 at 11:45 AM
To stop rapin me like that. Don't say I didn't warn ya. Do you want to see who is playing at the Guerilla Coffee House tonight? Why don't you pay attention to me when I tell you no? Do I look fat in this peasant skirt? Sometimes I don't think you take me seriously. I don't know why I am crying I just am. Did you use the last clean towel? Look at this Che poster I found at Backchannel Books. Please don't leave me. Get the $%#$^ away from me!
WOW !
by Sam
Wednesday, Apr. 02, 2003 at 11:56 AM
I think the "Libertarian Avenger" is correct in saying that the conduct of the 1877 posse are legally actionable. The unsustantiated rumors that these individuals have circulated about Makin have cost him income, and may have damaged his reputation beyond repair. I encourage Mr. Makin to seek legal remedy in the courts as I'm sure he can find a good attorney to take a "slam dunk" case such as this. It is important to remember here that the 1877 lynch mob is NOT free to assume judicial powers over a free citizen. It is immoral and unethical to mete out their own brand of private justice. In short, it is a violation of Makins' civil rights.
I hope that there is another venue, a TRUE "radical space," of authentic autonomy, that will step forward and offer Mr Makin a place to perform. I and many others would gladly cross any picket to see Mr Makin exercise his free speech rights.
I urge all concerned citizens to help Makin protect his civli rights. Let the 1877 posse know that thier use of unsubstantiated rumors, un-named accusors, and secret tribunals to destroy a man's carreer is unacceptable and must be stopped.
innocent until PROVEN guilty
by 2balls
Wednesday, Apr. 02, 2003 at 12:01 PM
It's dirty shame that the calm, rational voices within Project 1877 were drowned out by the shrill carping of a bunch of vindictive penis haters who operate solely on heresay and rumor. I also feel bad for the promoter, whose hard work and dedication have been negated by this bunch of biddy hens.
It's sad to see Project 1877 hijacked by a minority faction that seeks to deny a fellow human being his basic civil rights. Makin HAS A RIGHT to confront his accussors in a court of law, and where he can be punished or vindicated accordingly.
Article about Rich Mackin
by Madeleine Baran
Wednesday, Apr. 02, 2003 at 12:10 PM
mbb260@nyu.edu
I am interested in writing an article about the Rich Mackin controversy. If anyone would like to be interviewed for the article, please contact me at: mbb260@nyu.edu. Thanks,
Madeleine Baran
RICH MACKIN GET A LAWYER NOW!!!!
by .
Thursday, Apr. 03, 2003 at 3:18 AM
Protect your human rights and civil liberties before the angry mob lynches you !!!
surf's up
by ..
Friday, Apr. 04, 2003 at 3:56 PM
Here's a truly radical notion: forgiveness.
Also, if he's an "admitted" sex offender, then does he STILL need to be confronted?
Lastly, while I can see why it would be important to make womyn feel safe, I don't see why it should be expected of Rich Mackin to meet all demands placed on him, unconditionally. Aren't unconditional demands what got HIM in trouble?
forgiveness
by alexander berkman
Monday, Apr. 07, 2003 at 8:52 AM
so ... we just forgive him ... and he keeps on doing this ... and that's a good idea?
Incredible
by Jackel
Monday, Apr. 07, 2003 at 9:45 AM
Why don't we all go and light torches and hunt the monster down in his castle!
don't let the facts get in the way
by nameless
Wednesday, Jul. 30, 2003 at 4:40 PM
All this talk of Rich as a repeat sex offender and whatnot.-- has ANYONE ever pressed charges against him EVER? Not that I know of.
If he's so bad, someone press charges and get him off the street. Otherwise, stop using him as a lightning rod for your misandry.
Although he does make a GOOD target. He's either bought way too much into this PC white male self-loathing guilt or else he's just too plain old dumb to sue.
Shame on all of the people who got all worked up and get behind these unfounded charges.
problems within our communities
by cat
Thursday, Aug. 07, 2003 at 10:06 AM
cat@hush.ai syracuse/brooklyn
i decided to read through some of the comments before i posted my own thoughts.
1. for a message board on an indy media site, a disturbing amount of people seem to have faith in the courts and police to solve this. hello? they are not on our side- when this shit comes up we need to figure out how to deal with it in a just manner. we are so aware of corruption, of racism and sexism within the government and the role of the police in that and yet i lost track of how many people have questioned the accusers for not going to the police, and suggested that rich should file for slander.
2. the blatant sexism and misogyny and white supremacy that is showing up in some of the comments is indicative that we all have some serious problems to deal with in the left/radical community. if we want to fight all forms of oppression, we all need to be aware of when we benefit from oppression and when we also actively participate in oppression and work to change that. calling the women AND men who signed that petition and/or support the survivors "penis hating" "feminazis" is fucking whack. what i wanted to comment about is how do we handle something like this? if there are demands, how do we determine that they are fair and enough? how do we ensure that they are carried out and kept to? how do we deal with partners, friends, family and fellow activists so that they can be part of the struggle after being assaulters? can they ever be part of our organizing again? how do we support their efforts to challenge and change and atone for their behavior so that we create a space that is truly safe?
i suggest all of the men who are defending rich in an "ol boys club" feminist and survivor bashing way read his response to the zine. while it is clear to me that he still has not arrived, he makes it pretty plain that your kind of support is not what he wants.
students.syr.com/scool/hiawhome.html
cat-
by andy
Thursday, Aug. 07, 2003 at 10:41 AM
please take note that the mere fact that these folks are posting to indymedia does not make them part of the left/radical community. there are a number of people who like to post to this site just to stir things up.
trolls vs. activists
by cat
Thursday, Aug. 07, 2003 at 10:56 AM
cat@hush.ai
andy:
"please take note that the mere fact that these folks are posting to indymedia does not make them part of the left/radical community. there are a number of people who like to post to this site just to stir things up. "
yeah, i read the comments more closely after i posted, and i do realize that there are obviously trolls here... but also some responses that do seem to come from leftists/radicals that are troubling. maybe they're just well hidden trolls or provocatuers, but i'm becoming less and less surprised at manifestations of patriarchy within the activist community.
cat
Anarchists and idiots
by 2 balls
Sunday, Aug. 17, 2003 at 5:35 AM
Yes, cat, your brand of vigilante justice is FAR better than the US justice system. Cat, you are a dangerous person and the US justice system should act quickly to stop you from hurting yourself or others, running with scissors or pretty much doing anything else that demonstrates your stupidity like that last posting.
Rich Mackin is the victim here. There was no crime. There was no assault (other than the assault on Rich which was coordinated by disgruntled jilted ex-girliefriend Rosie Streeturchin).
FREE EWAN KENKESMEARSE !!! FREE RICH MACKIN !!!!! FRE THE IMC OPPRESSED !!!!
...
by cat
Thursday, Sep. 04, 2003 at 1:12 PM
"Yes, cat, your brand of vigilante justice is FAR better than the US justice system."
i'm glad you agree.
rich
by alien invader
Thursday, Sep. 04, 2003 at 6:31 PM
Who is this Rich Mackin? And how does 2 Beers know him so well? It seems that 2 Beers is this made up person named EWAN KENKESMEARSE as well.
2 Beers is trying to make IMC look bad with his fabricated tales of Ewan and the "commie/terrorist leftist wacko" conspiracy.
Give it up 2 Beers we are on to you.
Lions and Tigers and Leftists! Oh MY! Better hide under the blanket!
IMC Looks Bad on Its Own
by 2beers
Friday, Sep. 05, 2003 at 8:32 AM
Rich Mackin was some poor idiot anarchist performance artist bad writer type, that happened to be on the short end of some feminist hissy fit that had everyone from IMCs across the country calling him a "rapist" all because he merely persisted in asking his girlfirend to pleasure him. Anyway, the whole thing is far too stupid and involved for me to get into for you here and now, but it was probably the most active discussion ever had here on the PGH IMC. It is a good read if you have the time. It really provides great insight to the mind of the typical leftist IMC fool and their interpretation of equal justice. There were about a half dozen (that would be six,or 6, for you leftists who have trouble with math and tax policy) discussion strings on the issue. The IMC'ers were a real lynch mob.
Anyway, 2beers doesn't know Rich Mackin, and I probably wouldn't like him if I did. But the whole thing showed the lunacy and hypocrisy of the IMC leftists.
As for the multiplicity of the 2beers ... well I have obviously been far more successful than I ever could have imagined even if I had set
![[masthead]](/images/masthead_140.png)