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M30: Pittsburgh Police Radio Highlights
by Anonymous Sunday, Mar. 30, 2003 at 9:26 PM

Summary of interesting radio traffic from M30 protest march

Some quotes from Pittsburgh police radio. I set up the recording before coming to the protest... little did I know I should have been taping the Edgewood police channel. These are not word for word, but as close as I could get without wasting too much time. Much of the radio traffic is pretty boring, so I'm not going to bother reporting all of it here. I've used all caps in places for emphasis.

In case you didn't know, Pittsburgh Police had a Port Authority bus waiting in the event of mass arrests at Dallas Avenue. See end of this story.

Pittsburgh Police Channel 7 - 453.450 MHz

[3:08 PM] 3565, Edgewood is trying to get them onto the sidewalk so we might have a little problem up here, its, uhhhh, Hutchinson and S. Braddock.... it's up by the Sunoco. [Note: I think 3565 is the ID for one of the two obvious undercover cops].

[3:09 PM] they got pepper spray out...
Traffic-82, we're in Edgewood. They're having confrontations with Edgewood officers

[3:10 PM] Traffic-82 to Unit 3330

3330, Someone call? [Note: 3330 is the commander]

Traffic82, just to let you know sir, Edgewood is, uhhhhhhh, officially requesting our assistance on the air.

That's understood... uhhhh we're moving them all to the sidewalk now.


[3:12 PM] Traffic-82, we've got a fight going on with some front of 1220.

[3:13 PM] 351K, be advised we still have about 10 units waiting in the opposite direction if they need us to pull down in that direction. [Note: 351K is Zone 5 canine officer].

[3:15 PM] Unit 3330 to all units on this detail.... ANYONE OFF THE SIDEWALK IS TO BE PLACED UNDER ARREST.

[3:16 PM] Unit 3316, can you notify, I guess this would be Edgewood or Swisvale down here, we're going to need a medic for someone who got sprayed with pepper spray down here.

[3:19 PM] base to 351K, you said you had 10 units where....

Up at the Homewood Funeral Home.

[3:29 PM] 3410, over here in the crowd they were talking about trying to do road blockade, uhhhh... past Overton, now we're at the front of the protest... THEY DIDNT THINK WE COULD HEAR THEM.

Okay, that's received.

[3:30 PM] 3410, we overherd them planning to do a road blockade. WERE NOT EXACTLY SURE THATS THEIR PLAN..

[3:31 PM] Base to 3316 or 3330, do you want mounted patrol from the county?


[3:32 PM] 3664, it appears they're starting to disperse. [Note: 3664 is the other obvious undercover cop.]

[3:45 PM] Unit 3330 to Traffic-82

Traffic-82, go ahead, sir.


Standby, I'm on my way up there.

351K, I'm with the Port Authority bus now.


351K, I just released them.

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by -- Sunday, Mar. 30, 2003 at 10:02 PM

That undercover is completely full of shit. No one was talking about doing road blockades after they arrested everyone. I wonder if the obvious undercovers were trying to act like they had a purpose at the rally since everyone knew who they were and avoided them.

add your comments

by Anonymous Sunday, Mar. 30, 2003 at 10:10 PM

Actually, the police officer that claimed the crowd was talking about doing a blockade was a uniformed police officer. he apparently thought he had above average hearing. 3410 is the number 10 car from zone 4.

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by go home Sunday, Mar. 30, 2003 at 10:26 PM

so in a crowd of 400+ people you can somehow know that NONE of them were discussing blocking the roads. Not even all the little punk kids with their anarchy hoodies and brand new "smash the system!" tshirt mom&dad bought for them at hot topic?

Here's a clue, all of you were blocking the road.

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blocking the road
by beep beep Monday, Mar. 31, 2003 at 12:33 AM

Goddamn right we're going to block the road. I guess it isn't an *inconvenience* for citizens of pgh to pay $70M+ in taxes for the war. I'm paying for this atrocity against my will, so war supporters can suck it while their priviledge to drive around is temporarily suspended. It's only fair...

Try calculating the cost of the war compared to the lost time of blocking 10 cars for five minutes. $100, maybe? On a Sunday afternoon? Probably $20 in lost productivity.... "The protestors are irrelevant..." -GWB

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by go home Monday, Mar. 31, 2003 at 1:13 AM

Goddamn right we're going to block the road. I guess it isn't an *inconvenience* for citizens of pgh to pay $70M+ in taxes for the war. I'm paying for this atrocity against my will, so war supporters can suck it while their priviledge to drive around is temporarily suspended. It's only fair...

Are you really so arrogant as to claim to know what my time is worth? How long can we continue this cycle of "fairness"? Can I stand in front of your house with 30 of my friends and block you from leaving for 20 minutes while we inform you of our movement to legalize pot? Can I sit outside your church and refuse you entrance until you listen to our message from the Church of Satan? Can I forcibly block access to an abortion clinic until you hear my message of saving lives? That is the light you are painting yourselves in. If you want to be heard, be seen and heard, but don't force yourselves on people. Stick to street corners and private property. Not only will you get your point across to more people you'll avoid arrest that way.

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by jwg Monday, Mar. 31, 2003 at 2:34 AM

but if we weren't 'forcign ourselves' on people, you would've never come to the indymedia site or even wondered why we are doing what we're doing... so we got through to you

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by . Monday, Mar. 31, 2003 at 3:53 AM

but if we weren't 'forcign ourselves' on people, you would've never come to the indymedia site or even wondered why we are doing what we're doing... so we got through to you

Ok, so you got me to come to your site and make fun of you, congrats. Now maybe if your movement could engage me on your perspective without resorting to calling me a right-wing warmonger or an ignorant simpleton. From my perspective I have a pretty decent understanding of the middle east, the UN, and world politics, and yet I still support this war, and judging by the polls I'm in the majority. I'm sorry if that destroys the stereotype you have of war supporters all being inbred hicks watching NASCAR in between CNN bombing footage. Until one of you can engage me in some sort of intellectual discussion about world events without tossing out cliche soundbytes you ripped from a communist website or RATM lyrics I'll give you as much respect as I give the right-wing fascists (that is to say, zero.)

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you've misunderstood
by jwg Monday, Mar. 31, 2003 at 8:18 AM

now now, I've never directed a personal attack at you. I've never called you a hick or inbred (tho, you lumping inbred hicks and NASCAR fans together is troublesome).

And maybe all your doing is coming here to make fun. But at least you are actively taking part in thinking about this was. So it has worked on you. You are not one of the millions of americans who are supporting a war that they've never thought about or discussed with anyone who might oppose them. So we did a good thing. Instead of bing a TV zombie, you are now part of the process, an active member of your community.

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by Ken Kaminski Monday, Mar. 31, 2003 at 8:44 AM

An interesting thing I'm suprised no one has commented on. Judging by these radio reports, if we had sat down to do a road blockade, we could have gotten away with it.

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TO jwg AND THe Rest of You Twits
by S. Odamninsane Monday, Mar. 31, 2003 at 8:55 AM

"but if we weren't 'forcign ourselves' on people, you would've never come to the indymedia site or even wondered why we are doing what we're doing... so we got through to you"

Actually, I come here to see just how incredibly stupid your whole "movement" is, and just how mis-infomred you are. And then there is the offensive arogance that you are so unbashful about. That guy is right, you woudl be having little lefty tantrums, choking on your bean curd, if anyone ever tried to FORCE their opinos on you with "tactics" such as you use. Let's all have a roadblock in front of an abortion clinic? Well what is wrong with that, since of course unless these tactics were used no one would pay attentinio to the protester. Also, THere is no way that you could know what someone in a crowd of a couple of hundred protesters might have said (i.e. that a roadblock was about to commence), but I knwo that in a crowd of a coupel hundred protesters each and everyone of you should have kept walking until you found the Wizard and he gave you all each a brain. Did yo ever think that no one listens to your message BECAUSE YOU DON'T HAVE A MESSAGE ANYONE WANTS TO LISTEN TO. Pack up, go home, take a shower, and continue your support for Iraqi Women's RIhgts (that would be the right to stand faithfully by her man and take another beating, I think) without violating the rights of everyone else in your community.

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that's odd
by jwg Monday, Mar. 31, 2003 at 9:06 AM

that was addressed to me and I don't remember saying anything like what you just attributed to me.

and seriously, you need to come up with a better argument than, take a shower, get a job, blah blah blah. it doesn't pertain to me, or anyone else I know in the marches.

And the marches are working, on you... You could sit at home and watch sitcoms or march madness, but you choose to come here and have a discussion (albeit personal attacks aren't much of a discussion) about this war and civil protest tactics. Bravo!

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To jwg and the rest of the twits
by S. Odamninsane Monday, Mar. 31, 2003 at 9:42 AM

You probalby don't remember, becasue your posts like everythign else you idiots say is meaningless and not worthy of remembering, even to you guys. Here's your post (form just about five posts above):

by jwg Monday March 31, 2003 at 02:34 AM

but if we weren't 'forcign ourselves' on people, you would've never come to the indymedia site or even wondered why we are doing what we're doing... so we got through to you

SO -- Maybe that refreshes the last remnants of a brain that you have left. Like I said, you are not winning anyone with your "arguments" or "discussion". You guys are all a bunch of extortionists. Let me get this straight, your positin is that since none listens to your "message" then you will get up in their face (or in front of their car or house or wherever) and be a complete pest until they listen. Very good plan, most often employed bychildren under the age of 8, but I can see you are giving it a new use. Real good. So my argument is that you are a bunch of immature twits with no respect for other peopel or "diversity" of opinions. Gee, looks like the weight of the evidence is on my side in this one. Now go home, take shower, and turn on the Independent Film Network and smoke another joint, but stay the hell out of the street.

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by jwg Monday, Mar. 31, 2003 at 9:56 AM

no I know I said what you quoted me on, it was the whole second paragraph that you got me wrong on.

And again, It is my stance that the point of marches and public demonstrationis not to persuade. It is to alarm. When I want to try to persuade people I will talk to them, but in our culture today, you rarely get a chance to talk with anyone unles you 'shock and awe' them out of their complacency.

Again, yesterdays march worked because now you are here, discussing the war and our tactics. If we had not marched yesterday, you would be hopping merrily along pretending that our government is right and everyone agrees with it.

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jwg - Part of a Criminal Conspiracy
by S.Odamninsane Monday, Mar. 31, 2003 at 10:11 AM

So you admit that the purpsoe of the rallies is to alarm people. THe purpsoe is not to make a peaceful statemtn but to alarm. I beleive I have also heard it described as o be "disruptive." SO your purpsoe is to alarm, to confront, to disrupt, and to otherwise interfer with the lawful private and economic activities of the community at large. And you do this as a group. HTat is very interesting. SOunds like the mafia. or at least some other criminal conspiracy. I wonder if any of the crack legal advocates you have here on this site could explain the RICO laws to you. Isn't that what was used against the abortion protesters adn other "not politically fashionable" activist organizations. Maybe RICO could be used to get you guys to shut up and let us all get home on time.

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the way things are run here
by jwg Monday, Mar. 31, 2003 at 10:18 AM

I would be proud to be part of a criminal conspiracy. But it's not that simple. As it stands I am just a citizen.

Yes protests alarm, the keep you in your car an extra 10 minutes, the wake you up and MAKE YOU THINK.

Life is hard, there are struggles everyday, you cannot be coddled your whole life and have other people do things to insure that you remain completely unaware of the world around you. Now we are here having this discussion, I'm glad we are, discussion bridges gaps. It's a good thing.

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jwg is the only coddled child
by S. Odamninsane Monday, Mar. 31, 2003 at 10:25 AM

Yes, your protests tah eep me in the car make me think ...they make me think that I was wrong to ever give you idiots the benefit of the doubt, and that you really are childish fools with no agenda other than to find a convenient release for your adolescent angst.

Coddled? You are out of your flippin' mind ! FIrst I and everyone else you inconveniece has to get up early int he mornign, make coffee (on our own .. now hippy coffe house brew time), take care of the kids, change a coupel of diapers, get tot he bus, hope it is one time, (or drive in to town), worry about the kids geting of to school, worry abotut he kids in school, grunt it out at our jobs so we can pay for the house food and taxes, get back in our cars to go home to the family, and then have to deal with you imbeciles beating on a drum adn dancing arounsd int eh middle of the street like you are on acid, deal wiht you twits screaming at our cars, deal with you idoits holding up the bus. You dont make anyone think about your casue, they just think about how they grew out of that phase of life and how you haven't (and now you are playing dangerously close to traffic).

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by . Monday, Mar. 31, 2003 at 10:30 AM

Yes protests alarm, the keep you in your car an extra 10 minutes, the wake you up and MAKE YOU THINK.

See, this is what really bugs me about you assume that because I don't agree with you I'm just a mindless drone being spoonfed my world via TV. I already think, I've considered the anti-war views extensively, yet I still don't agree with them. Maybe if you tried to discuss things during these rallies, or used signs a little more creative than "NO BLOOD FOR OIL" (we all know the politics aren't that simple, and we most likely will lose money on this venture not make any on the oil.) Seriously, when I looked at you people yesterday all I could think was "yay, they learned how to find really cool soundbytey slogans online! yay for them!" It's just as shallow and meaningless as the soccormom in her SUV with a "UNITED WE STAND" sticker. Neither of you have put any thought into it.

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i forgot
by jwg Monday, Mar. 31, 2003 at 10:42 AM

you are the worlds most well-thought and thoroughly investigative man. What you say must be true, forgive me for trying to have my own voice

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jwg's voice
by S.Odamninsane Monday, Mar. 31, 2003 at 10:49 AM

You fool ... we all know htat you have voice and that you will voice your opinino anwhere, anytime, for any reason, and at anyone else's expense. That's the fact. Jack. And that is the problem. Grow up man. If ou want to voice your opiino do so all you want, without violating anyone else's rights. Hey, you might also want to try to listen to someone else's opinion also for a change rather than always trying to cram your opinions down everyone's throat jsut becasue a "peace rally" is fashionable. ALot of peopel out there ahve actual thought about the issues that you profess to understnad. And they have come to the reasoned and intelligent conclusiosn that you are wrong. Sorry, but you peace ralliers do not offer anything other than hat and torment. THere is no intelligent thought. If you truly had the ability to comprehend the complexitites of the current polical situtaion then you might quicly adopt a differrent view on this matter. Notice I did not say that you woudl adopt my view, just that you woudl adopt a different and more mature view of the circumstance. Until then you jsut look and act like foolish children. Here's a loolipop adn a kiss for your boo boo. Now remember not to play in the street or interfere with the police officer who has a situation on his hands or you might get your feelings (or something else) hurt.

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mr. clever-name
by jwg Monday, Mar. 31, 2003 at 10:56 AM

But I do all those things that you do do. (Except the coffee, I don't really like it) and I still think that this war is unjust and should be stopped.

I'd love to ride the bus to work and not wonder if someone isn't going to have a bomb strapped to them. But the actions of a few in Washington make that impossible. Terrorists don't hate our freedom, they hate us because we feel the need to stick our fingers in their pies.

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by S.Damninsane Monday, Mar. 31, 2003 at 11:03 AM

"stick our fingers in their pies" ? You are really not well informed. Quit projecting your Western ideals of revolution on a culture you have no understanding of. THis is not at all about us taking too big a slice of pie. It is about the terrorists racism and hatred of all things western. THey terrorists woudl kill you just becasue you are not one of them. DO some more reseach. CHeck out the writing of Daniel Pipes, one ofhte foremost experts on the issue.

Actually, form all of your actions I really had the impression that you thought traffic was unjust and thaat was what you were trying to stop. If it is the war you protest and want to stop, then write a letter to Jacque Chirac and tell him to quit standing int he way of peace.

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just to make some things clear
by pjd Monday, Mar. 31, 2003 at 11:28 AM

You are claiming that we are some minority forcing our ideas on a reasonable majority - like the abortion clinic protestors do.

But there is one big flaw in your arguments - FACT: Polls show that with the lone exception of the United States, the ENTIRE DEMOCRATIC (and otherwise) WORLD - even in the so-called "coalition" countries is overwhelmingly against this war - Spain 85% Italy 85% Turkey 90% France 90% Germany 80% Russia 80%.

So, WE PROTESTORS are the ones on the side of the overwhelming majority. So at this point, if you are not asking why the US is acting out of step with the rest of the world, you are procticing willful blindness. Please ask yourselves why???

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BS to the Polls
by S. Odamninsane Monday, Mar. 31, 2003 at 11:46 AM

FACT: The rest of the world doesn't live here, so I reallydon't care what they think. And neither should our government.

FACT: Of course France, Germany, Russia and the liek are goign to be opposed to the war... It is their own economic self interest that gives this result. Thye have been profitting handsomely from their very recent dealings with Mr. Hussein.

FACT: It is always -- No let me correct that -- it is ALWAYS the United States that has to bail the rest of the world out of the problems it creates.

FACT: If we hadn't listened tot eh rest ofthe wrld in 1991, we wouldnt have to worry about Saddam Hussein in 2003. ANd the Iraq people might actually have a reason to trust The Rest of the WOrld.

Now you know The Rest of The Story.

add your comments

by pjd Monday, Mar. 31, 2003 at 12:33 PM

"FACT: The rest of the world doesn't live here, so I really don't care what they think. And neither should our government."

No, but America is a somewhat minor member of the rest of the world 250 Million vs 5 Billion, so what you or other Americans care or not care about is not too important. Hitler also didn't care what the rest of the world thought, and led the German poeple to death and destruction. Over the past 50 years, the US has not cared about the rest of the world and has crushed popular democratic movements everywhere and murdered people by the millions. Read your history. So, it is not suprising that the rest of the world sees the US an an out-of control rogue state. I'm not exxagerating.

The rest of your "facts" don't reflect history. They do reflect a sort of American megalomania which could bring humanity to a violent end.

Saddam is not a threat - the idea is preposterous. He has niether the means, or desire to attack the US, and would do very little damage if he was insane enough to try. But we have been saying this until we were blue in the face in the months leading up to the war.

This is why the time for talking is over, the time has come to get in the streets and disrupt. The "rest of the world" is depending on us.

It is futile to reason with sick ,violent minds of so many americans, so this discussion is over.

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by Evan N Monday, Mar. 31, 2003 at 5:11 PM

"yet I still support this war, and judging by the polls I'm in the majority. "

no, you aren't. You are only factoring in america, who has been brainwashed 24/7 by slanted news reports, as the mainstream media is OWNED by the government basically, you can't argue with that. You AREN'T factoring in the ENTIRE WORLD which is extremely opposed to this war. WHo's the majority now? and shouldnt the majority INVOLVED (the world) matter the most?

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oil on our dick
by q Monday, Mar. 31, 2003 at 5:21 PM

yes, france and all do have economic ties with saddam. but so do american companies. oil giant Halliburton has done hundreds of millions dollars with iraq including about 73.5 million as recently as 1998. vp dick cheny was the ceo of halliburton untill the campaign run in 2000. currently there are 3 companies fighting the oil field fires in iraq. all 3 are subsidiaries of Halliburton. Halliburton plans to build and re-build oil derricks in iraq after this current "war".(just as it did after the gulf war--why were US companies aiding saddam?) yes, yes this politics and everyone's dirty, including our own dick cheny. all this wacko lefty info was reported on cnn, like once or twice.

america bails everyone else out of their own troubles is an opinion not a fact.

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by . Monday, Mar. 31, 2003 at 6:06 PM

urrently there are 3 companies fighting the oil field fires in iraq. all 3 are subsidiaries of Halliburton. Halliburton plans to build and re-build oil derricks in iraq after this current "war".

Er, nice propaganda. Let's see if we can mix some facts in there, shall we?

1.) The people fighting fires in Iraq right now are Kuwaitis. Most of them working for the Kuwaiti government. None have ties to Halburton.
2.) Halburton was not given the rebuilding contract. They got sick of the bad press and backed out. Certainly sounds like a company driven by greed and hellbent on milking the middle east for every last penny, doesn't it?
3.) Halburton didn't rebuild anything in Iraq after the last war.

There, that wasn't so hard was it? Of course it kinda lacks the leftist propaganda punch of your original post, but I think I prefer the truth.

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Addressing JWG
by Anonymous114 Monday, Mar. 31, 2003 at 6:23 PM

JWG - You seem to be one of the only anti-war persons who put some thought into the opinions that you have submitted, so I'll address this with you. Why is it that your group feels it necessary to block the streets and sidewalks, and cause general public annoyance and inconvienance, just to try to make a point...or as you said, to "get US involved and to think about this war, instead of being a TV zombie". Why is it that you feel the anti-war people are "educated and have put active thought and research into their opinion on this war", but none of us who support it have? Because I haven't organized a rally group, made up some signs and Tshirts, and taken to the streets in hopes to draw the attention of the news, doesn't mean that I'm uneducated or lacking knowledge before making my decision on this war. Another person on this website asked why the police aren't giving the participants of the war SUPPORT rallies a hard time, or the same treatment as your group. Well, have you noticed that the rallies for the war supporters are in-fact PEACEFUL, and take place at parks and public meeting places that DO NOT block streets, roadways, alleys, sidewalks, resident's driveways.....the general eggress of the rest of society. My point, and a simple question to you, or anyone of your fellow anti-war supporters: Why can't you organize and protest the war in the manner that the war supporters support it....peacefully, out of the way, without blocking OUR (yours AND my) streets, and without "demonstrating"? The supporters get the same news coverage you do, and without getting arrested or causing a problem for the rest of us. I, personally, would have much more respect for your opinions if you conducted yourselves in a manner that earned the respect of other people, instead of pissing them off and making their life harder by (for example) blocking my car in and making me late to/from work, or to the hospital to see my sick baby.

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this won't be too hard, either
by q Monday, Mar. 31, 2003 at 6:35 PM

hey i know all my propaganda is all mixed up, since there's so much prop to keep track of...

check out halliburton's website for info on their direct involvement regarding iraq's oil field fires. i hope this isn't too hard.

add your comments

by . Monday, Mar. 31, 2003 at 6:40 PM

hey i know all my propaganda is all mixed up

Yes it is. They backed out of that contract last week. Which is too bad, since they are the top company for fighting oil well fires and probably deserve the contract. Also, if this is some conspiracy to get Halliburton money why would the Bush administration put so much effort and energy into protecting the oil fields from damage? Only 9 were set on fire by Iraq, and Kuwait is putting them out now.

Maybe now you can spew more accurate propaganda.

add your comments

by Evan N Monday, Mar. 31, 2003 at 10:33 PM

"Also, if this is some conspiracy to get Halliburton money why would the Bush administration put so much effort and energy into protecting the oil fields from damage? "

Its simple. Blow something up then charge them to fix it. It's like if you take your car in so the mechanic can change a windshield wiper and he beats some vital compontent under the hood with a wrench so in a week, you will take it back there and he will fix it.... for $400. It's not like Halliburton is doing this service for free, the money to pay for the firefighting equipment and the manpower has to come from somewhere, most likely post-saddam iraq. Capping the oil wells and letting the new Iraqi government use them will ensure that post-saddam Iraq will have an equitable way to repay Halliburton for its time. But even suppose that that doesnt work, and somehow New Iraq can't get America the oil to repay its companies. Big deal, america will drive up Iraq's debt just like it has with many other 3rd world nations, and IMF and WorldBank it until it turns out like Argentina, with massive riots in the streets because everyone's paycheck got cut ANOTHER %12. it's a win/win situation for America, all we need to complete that equation is a heartless replacement for saddam that will whore himself to U.S. interests..... wait a sec.... that was saddam's purpose when the U.S. put him into power.....

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by q Tuesday, Apr. 01, 2003 at 1:01 AM

i have not heard of Halliburton breaking their contract. where did you find this?

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Halli-oil fires and infrastructure
by q Tuesday, Apr. 01, 2003 at 1:53 AM

nameless poster i am trying to get my facts straight. from what i can gather Halliburton still has the oil fire contracts. try this link:,3604,926400,00.html
according to this story, which was published 3.30.03(sunday) the big H has the contracts. which means, by your post, Halli pulled out of the contract on mon.3.31.03, today-well now yesterday.

maybe what you were referring to was Halliburton did not get contracts to rebuild iraq's infrastructure--which many people, including H thought they would. bad press and Halliburton's ties to cheny led to this annoucement. check this article:,6903,925325,00.html this article basically says Halliburton won't be rebuilding iraq but companies that were/are good buddies to the bush camp will.

hope that clears some of the air--if you find evidence that Halli was pulled out of the fire contracts drop a link here and i'll check it.

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to : Anonymous114
by jwg Tuesday, Apr. 01, 2003 at 1:55 AM

this is a difficult situation that we are in and there are no clear answers.

while I cannot speak for anyone in the marches but myslef, I can say this: I participate inblocking traffic and civil disobedience to gain your attention. It is a minor inconvienience I know, but a lot better than having a missile hit your mother with shopping in an open marketplace.

Your participation in the discussion on indymedie, to me, validates my stance as I believe that if we stayed in parks, and did not disrupt daily activities, it would not be covered by the media and you would not care enough to come here and engage in debate.

as to the TV zombie reference. I do not belive that this is everyone, but I do see and interact with enough people day in and day out to belive that is is the consensus. I personally know people who think thethis war is unjust and corrupt, but now support it because it's started and they belive that they would be unpatriotic to not do so.

I might not belive the tv zombie charge about youif I knew you, fact is everyone is an individual, and I can olny draw my personal conclusions on a majority of what I see. I do, however appreciate the way you brached this subject to me, this is how public debate should occur. Your statements contained no rhetoric or jingoism, but just honest points and questions. I would be happy to answer you as much as I have a right to do so (I can only speak for myself, not others.)

If you would like to contact me ouside of this forum plase feel free to do so

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i knew this would happen
by q Tuesday, Apr. 01, 2003 at 1:58 AM

first off the links should be switched up

second, the observer link is spelled wrong(hope i get it right this time),6903,925325,00.html

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by jwg Tuesday, Apr. 01, 2003 at 2:01 AM


the e-mail is

do not respnd to the, it's someone else's account


and q----

are you the same q at the roboto project?

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by . Tuesday, Apr. 01, 2003 at 9:43 AM

if you find evidence that Halli was pulled out of the fire contracts drop a link here and i'll check it.

Ok, thanks...I didn't realize there were two sets of contracts going around. But this just validates my point even more. If this was some conspiracy to get Cheney's buddies lots of money why would we spend so much energy securing the oil wells before they could be set on fire? And why is Kuwait putting the fires that are there out?

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"Cheney's buddies"
by sidenoter Tuesday, Apr. 01, 2003 at 11:48 PM

"nameless poster",

I am touched by your willingness to discuss these important issues with individuals who may seen completely ideologically opposed to you. This particular thread proves that dialogue can occur rather painlessly, and yet with great benefit.

I wish to note something that you said in your last post: [that if this war was happening simply to benefit] 'some of Cheney's buddies'...
We should look at exactly who are 'some of Cheney's buddies', and perhaps we will discover that there are quite a few of his 'buddies'.

You asked why they (the US gov) would spend so much effort 'protecting' the oil fields, if their interests (some of Cheney's buddies) actually were to burn them so to make money fighting the fire. And why the kuwaitis would help put out the fires...

I think you have hit upon exactly that conflict of interest which should raise the most concern. We are entrusting the entire state of the world on the decisions made by a small, closely interlocked group of very wealthy men, whose business interests would benefit from both mass destruction and mass reconstruction. In this case we would have to base our trust on a very weak moral decision--that we don't think they'd intentionally destroy parts of the world with weapons produced by the same people who stand to benefit from a) reconstruction of bombed infrastructure and b) advanced military hegemony in the Persian Gulf region and c) a much greater control over the vast oil resources in Iraq, which thereby allows a much greater influence over OPEC (with the resources formally in the hands of a foreign businessman who was not very cooperative with giving the US oil favors).

Think about it, and check out boards of directors, compare them with government appointments, consult CEO investments as well as their salaries,
but meanwhile also consider how much YOU make compared to them, and how much you and your family actually benefit from THEIR profitteering.

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Halli/Bechtel articles
by sidenoter Wednesday, Apr. 02, 2003 at 12:00 AM

some references...



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Follow Up
by pgh anarchist Sunday, Aug. 27, 2006 at 3:26 PM

Apparently one of the terrorists involved in deploying chemical weapons decided to resign from the Edgewood Dept. and go work for the gendarme' in Swissvale

Swissvale hires three police and two code enforcement officers

Wednesday, October 13, 2004
By M. Ferguson Tinsley, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

Swissvale council has hired three full-time police officers and two code inspectors.

Debra Indovina, Anthony H. Costa III and William Hahn, all part-time officers with the borough, were named to full-time positions at last Wednesday's council meeting. They will each earn $37,417 and be subject to background, medical and psychological tests as well as a one-year probation period, said borough Manager Warren Cecconi.

Indovina has worked for Swissvale about six years. She also was a part-time officer for Edgewood for six months.

In the spring of 2003, she became the subject of an internal investigation. She, along with other Edgewood and Swissvale officers, pepper sprayed and arrested anti-war protesters on March 30, 2003. One or more of the protesters complained, said Edgewood police Chief Paul Wood.

"We didn't find anything wrong in what they did," he said. "There was no violation of policy...[Indovina] was a good officer. She could've stayed as long as she wanted to."

Indovina resigned from the Edgewood force three months after the protest march.

Costa has worked for the borough for almost 10 years. The son of former Swissvale police Lt. Anthony H. Costa Jr., he had worked as a part-time officer with the Rankin and North Braddock police departments. In 1997, when he was a North Braddock patrolman, Costa was commended for saving a man's life. He and his partner carried the unconscious man out of his burning home.

In 1998, state police said he got tangled up in a road rage incident. According to a report, Costa and a Bedford County man were driving separately on the turnpike in Somerset County. After the Bedford man cut him off, he and Costa began alternately cutting in front of each other. Then the Bedford man tried to ram Costa's car, according to the report.

Costa, who was 22 at the time, responded by flashing a pistol.

"It was a misunderstanding," Costa said, acknowledging the incident. "We were both victims."

The resultant reckless endangerment and disorderly conduct charges filed against him and the other man ultimately were dismissed.

Hahn started with Swissvale in 1998 as a part-time patrolman and undercover detective. He has also worked for the Pittsburgh Housing Authority.

The new hires bring the force to 13 full-time officers, including the chief and assistant chief.

The total number of officers will decrease to 12 once Joseph DeMaria takes a job with Plum police, said Swissvale police Chief Dominic Nuzzo.

The chief also said he plans to leave the department. After 30 years in law enforcement, he expects to retire soon.

The code enforcement officers hired last week were Fawn Burch of Buena Vista Avenue and Makeba Branson of South Braddock Avenue. They began work Thursday, earning $10 an hour for an average 32-hour work week.

Councilman Ed Mallon opposed the hires. He said the borough had not fully justified the need for more code enforcement workers. Barbara Campbell voted with him against Branson.

Throughout the spring, street committee chairman James Bonacci had clamored for additional enforcement officers. He said subsidized housing, absentee landlords and improperly placed dumpsters need to be brought in line with the code.

Burch and Branson will work with senior code enforcement officer Fred Kuhn and another new employee, Carey Carroll, who, in compliance with the state's new standardized building code rules adopted in July, was hired this summer as a certified building inspector.

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